#9400556 - 09/21/18 10:50 AM
Got canned yesterday - Package question
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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16 years in a big IT company and got let go because my new boss didn't like me using my design skills to help the marketing team (even though I was getting cost codes). I'm very happy to have left the corporation and I'm looking forward to putting more energy towards my own design company.
A question I have for anyone who has gone through this scenario before or knows the ins and outs of HR and their BS. Is it worth seeking legal advice to review "my package" Lawyers in Durham are charging between 3-500 bucks just to review...yes I hate lawyers to.
Quick rundown 16 years in corporation - 42 years old - severance was for 25 weeks
Thanks guys
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#9400559 - 09/21/18 10:56 AM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Mr.Bozack]
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snowman888
Jr Member
Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 506
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Depending on your circumstance, you could get a month per year as severance. Always worth the time to talk to a lawyer. HR usually gives the bare min as a starting point.
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#9400562 - 09/21/18 11:04 AM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Mr.Bozack]
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Risky Business
Provides a Great Work Environment. he/him
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 45433
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16 years in a big IT company and got let go because my new boss didn't like me using my design skills to help the marketing team (even though I was getting cost codes). I'm very happy to have left the corporation and I'm looking forward to putting more energy towards my own design company. A question I have for anyone who has gone through this scenario before or knows the ins and outs of HR and their BS. Is it worth seeking legal advice to review "my package" Lawyers in Durham are charging between 3-500 bucks just to review...yes I hate lawyers to. Quick rundown 16 years in corporation - 42 years old - severance was for 25 weeks Thanks guys
I've been behind dozens of severance packages from the finance end of things, that severance is definitely not right considering your tenure.
You can pm me if you want, but a couple of things, did you already sign off on it or was it presented to you and now have time to get back to them?
There is absolutely no way you should be accepting that, for somebody like you 16 years, assuming "manager" level title, you should be in the area of 50-60 weeks in severance at the very least and you should negotiate to have benefits coverage for at least another 6+ months.
You are however in a shitty situation because if you engage a lawyer and "win" and they raise the severance, the lawyer will basically take half of the equivalent value of your severance and you will end up with what you are getting now.
What I've seen work is to engage a reputable law firm now and only have them draft a legal letter to the company saying why what you are being offered is unacceptable and what you will settle for, then see what they say. If they call your bluff you can just accept it and move on or engage the lawyer and prepare to pay any sort of "win" back to the lawyer.
Keep in mind the lawyer will want to draft the letter where it will begin a back and forth, because more billable hours. You simply want a letter stating your case why their offer is unacceptable (lawyer should be making that argument) and then tell them you will take legal action against the company. Ask for a fixed price from a lawyer for this letter, it's worth spending the 500 dollars on it. Or you could draft it yourself as a response and tell them you will take legal action and see what they say, and engage lawyer after that point. It's probably best to come out of the gates swinging so this doesn't drag out.
Good luck.
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#9400777 - 09/21/18 03:43 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Risky Business]
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OracerO
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 3949
Loc: GTA
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[quote=Mr.Bozack]
Keep in mind the lawyer will want to draft the letter where it will begin a back and forth, because more billable hours. You simply want a letter stating your case why their offer is unacceptable (lawyer should be making that argument) and then tell them you will take legal action against the company. Ask for a fixed price from a lawyer for this letter, it's worth spending the 500 dollars on it. Or you could draft it yourself as a response and tell them you will take legal action and see what they say, and engage lawyer after that point. It's probably best to come out of the gates swinging so this doesn't drag out.
Good luck.
What this guy said. As long as you didn't sign yet.
I got 20 weeks and i was a manager in a fortune 500 company and only worked 2.2 years (but i'm a different case and was in with the management team, i asked for a package).
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#9400829 - 09/21/18 05:44 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: OracerO]
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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Sorry it took a while to respond guys - been tied up with many things.
No I'm not at a manager level (I was stuck in a position with no options to advance so I started businesses outside of work)- I was a Sr. Consultant but then they changed my title a few years back to an admin title of some sort because I was no longer billable but worked with internal marketing departments.
I appreciate the advice. Risky thanks for taking the time to formulate that response. I'll PM ya
No I definitly did not sign anything they have given me a week to make a decision.
I'll share in more detail the offering Stat Pay 8 weeks Stat Severance 8 weeks Severance Pay 25 weeks
Everyone else I also appreciate the input - When I win the super 7 tonight I'll host the next CSI meet in my old companies parking lot and finally get to meet some of you fine folks.
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#9400843 - 09/21/18 06:12 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Mr.Bozack]
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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I just re read this with my wife and I think she is on board with Risky's approach - great advice to avoid the lawyers billable hours.
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#9400853 - 09/21/18 06:51 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Mr.Bozack]
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SW20_MR2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 08/27/01
Posts: 5282
Loc: Markham, Ontario, Canada
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When my wife got let go, as part of the settlement, we ended up agreeing that the company would pay all of the legal fees that we incurred.
_________________________
1991 MR2 Turbo aka "The Myth"...does it really exist? 2006 Mazda3 Sport aka "Reality"...it really does exist...
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#9400959 - 09/22/18 09:00 AM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: SW20_MR2]
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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Oh shit I like that approach SW I will ask the lawyer if this is an option when working with them
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#9400986 - 09/22/18 11:04 AM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Mr.Bozack]
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A2B-Lexus
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 45570
Loc: Raptors Land
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Sorry to hear. At least you are at an age where you are still very employable.
Risky gave some sound advice. Best of luck.
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#9400988 - 09/22/18 11:07 AM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: SW20_MR2]
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Risky Business
Provides a Great Work Environment. he/him
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 45433
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When my wife got let go, as part of the settlement, we ended up agreeing that the company would pay all of the legal fees that we incurred.
Good point, just worth keeping in mind that if it gets down to this a lot of times they will then start defining what is part of the "incurred" legal fees and what isn't. Sometimes a judge can put a cap on it like 5k is the max it should've cost, but if OP gets a lawyer that cost 15k, he is still out. Case in point, definitely ask for legal fee reimbursement, but don't count it.
Hopefully it doesn't get to that point, but some employers are total scum fucks. It always ends up costing both the employee and employer more when the employer doesn't treat the employee fairly from the get with these things, but they keep doing it and the lawyers are the only ones that win.
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#9400998 - 09/22/18 12:03 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Risky Business]
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JEFFOS
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 01/27/00
Posts: 29176
Loc: Toronto
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Good advice risky
Sorry to hear about it OP but lots of different opportunities out there. Enjoy the final severance
_________________________
-Jeff
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#9401001 - 09/22/18 12:26 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: JEFFOS]
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A2B-Lexus
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 45570
Loc: Raptors Land
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OP, if you got kids and have medical and dental, ask them to extend that for a year as well if possible (if your wife doesn't have).
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#9401112 - 09/22/18 05:20 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: A2B-Lexus]
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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A2B yeah I got kids but my wife is a teacher so the benefits aren't a big deal unless I try to get scripts and sell for some cash - ha.
These cheap pricks only extended my benefits until Nov 15.
This company makes over 10B annually so I know they'll have the lawyers...but I also know this is their strategy to save a buck or two.
I'm thankful that they didn't temporarily lay me off and make me wait 8 months for my package. They used to do that to a lot and people and they were forced to find work because they couldn't wait that long and they would loose their package.
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#9401344 - 09/23/18 10:48 AM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Mr.Bozack]
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SuPeR-MaRiO
Post Master Sr
Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6200
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
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This gives you a little insight as to what you can get if you lawyer up. I get it that they're trying to get your business, but this says you're owed a lot more than what they're offering you (which I guess expected and always the case)
https://www.severancepaycalculator.com/
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#9401410 - 09/23/18 12:52 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Big Tasty]
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Kid Bro Sweets
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6774
Loc: GTA
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Sorry to hear OP, no advice to add but wish you good luck on this and towards your next gig.
same a lot of good stuff so i'll offer just best of luck OP.
_________________________
James Carter: Lee, let me introduce you to Carter's new theory of criminal investigation: follow the rich white man. Lee: Follow the rich white man? James Carter: Behind every big crime there's a rich white man waiting for his cut.
"Without this thinking you would see, you would see numbers that you wouldn't believe in reverse."
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#9401515 - 09/23/18 05:16 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Kid Bro Sweets]
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Simon_the_Pieman
Post Master Sr
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 9482
Loc: The A
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Sorry to hear OP, no advice to add but wish you good luck on this and towards your next gig. same a lot of good stuff so i'll offer just best of luck OP.
all the best bozack
_________________________
"I'd love it if we did it... but I guess I'm a big skeptic on Canadians because so many are retarded as fuck." - 355-Si, 2020
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#9401557 - 09/23/18 06:36 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Simon_the_Pieman]
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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Yeah Hator, that's my concern also. From the lawyers I have spoken to they seem to be aggressive to get your business but only to rope you into a drawn out ordeal.
I'll delay my decision for a week - something I'm sure most people don't do in this situation - while I do more research and look to find a lawyer I can work with.
I tried that calculator and it said I was entitled to something like 18-24 months of severance, I figured it was bs and a marketing tool.
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#9401830 - 09/24/18 06:21 AM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Hatorade]
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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Thanks Hator,
No clawback conditions that I am aware of - at least nothing has been mentioned and I didn't see anything written. So if I can land something either with a company or get more freelance this could be a nice chunk.
3 weeks per year would be much better but I wonder if that's only for severance pay and not including stat severance pay...if so that would be significantly more but if it includes both wouldn't be much more.
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#9401875 - 09/24/18 08:23 AM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Hatorade]
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Screamin Type ARGH!
High Value Poster
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/20/01
Posts: 47891
Loc: T.O. - Canaduh
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Like risky said though. The package they offered you is not right especially with that kind of tenure. Most companies usually settle at 3 weeks per year worked. Use that as a baseline to work worth. Are there clawback conditions such as you finding a job within a time period?
Good luck Bozack!
this.
and sorry to hear man!
hope you're successful in your next venture.
_________________________
"Ban low performance drivers, not high performance cars"
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#9403164 - 09/25/18 04:19 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: titty sprinkles]
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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Oh yeah guys, thanks for the kind words. I agree I'm motivated again and feel like I'm a designer again, it's amazing what the safety and staleness of an uninspiring job does for your confidence.
I have a call with a lawyer tomorrow at noon - Lior Samphiro - It's a free call so I'll see what they are saying but they will review the package over the call which is better than all lawyers that I have spoken with.
I haven't had any downtime since the canning as I've been freelancing non stop since this has happened - ironically enough it's for my old company.
This might be my future as I've always dabbled with the freelance on the side. Time to build up my client roster....and update my email signature.
Edited by Mr.Bozack (09/25/18 04:20 PM)
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#9403426 - 09/25/18 09:54 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: SuPeR-MaRiO]
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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Hator - yeah man I agree 100% I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit - I hated hearing "Here is your 1% raise blah blah blah" so this is forcing me to take the step.
Mario - I do graphic design and brand creation, basically I create brands and also support large corporate brands through print and digital. I'll share my portfolio site once my package has been settled.
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#9403483 - 09/26/18 05:57 AM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Mr.Bozack]
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Risky Business
Provides a Great Work Environment. he/him
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 45433
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These things always work out for the better
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#9403500 - 09/26/18 07:24 AM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Risky Business]
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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Thanks Risky, yes I feel something better is in the near future. Gotta put that M3 of the vision board lol I'm glad I didn't lock myself into any vehicle payments
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#9406917 - 09/29/18 10:58 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: SuPeR-MaRiO]
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LNXGUY
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 107676
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
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Goodluck man, that initial offer was fucking bullshit
_________________________
-Bill The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children. Left foot, right foot, just keep moving!!! -Jeffrey P. Murphy
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#9407129 - 09/30/18 01:10 PM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: LNXGUY]
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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Hoping to have an update by end of week this week.
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#9417779 - 10/15/18 06:55 AM
Re: Got canned yesterday - Package question
[Re: Mr.Bozack]
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Mr.Bozack
Sr Member
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1186
Loc: Ontario
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The negotiations have been finalized but I am holding out signing off until I get paid for some freelance work the company gave me the day after being let go - ironic eh. I've been trying to get paid for the work for 3 weeks, hoping by the end of this week everything is complete and I will provide a more detailed update.
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