#9302618 - 04/15/18 10:38 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered
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Nice run. I'd guess that'd be a 9/10 for me
Are you sure you're actually varying that much? Gps is temperamental. Also looks like less than 1%. I know consistant splits is the goal for an effort but isn't that pretty fucking close?
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#9302654 - 04/16/18 01:31 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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Sir Ironpool
Sponsored by Toyota
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 71803
Loc: Long Beach, CA
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Gotta love those training runs that just feel effortless!
I ran the Leona Divide 50 mile yesterday. Any finish is a good one, but I definitely had to work my ass off for this one!
The race is in the mountains east of Santa Clarita/Magic Mountain. Kind of the high desert ridge areas above the Antelope Valley desert. 45 miles of it was on the Pacific Crest Trail, which was beautiful, but man does it make the idea of a through-hike seem like an impossible task. Miles and miles of remote, exposed and dry trails. We were lucky that it was fairly cool (high was around 80) but there is almost zero shade the whole way.
Race start was 6am, and it’s an almost 2 hour drive from Long Beach, so I was up at 2:45 to head up there. Temps were in the high 30’s, so I grabbed my bib and dozed in the car till the start.
The course starts from a little community called Green Valley, goes 3 miles up the road and dirt road till the first out and back stretch on the PCT heading south. I was taking it easy and chatting with my buddy who was running his first 50 miler. Once on the single track it was a nice long conga line but I didn’t worry about pushing it, or worry about passing or getting passed, just taking it nice and easy and enjoying the cool weather while it lasted. This stretch consisted of two of descents and two big climbs. The first were about 3 miles, the second a bit more. The turnaround was at the end of a long smooth descent, and I hit mile 18 feeling decent, but warm. There were two back to back 9 mile stretches between aid here so I I was carrying two handheld bottles that I filled with water and Fluid electro lite mix. I didn’t carry any nutrition other than salt tabs which I took two per hour. Starting at mile 18 I would use my ice bandana to wipe myself down to get rid of the caked on salt, then fill it with ice. I took my time (maybe 4-5 minutes) and ate lots of calories.
The climb back up and over the mountain was grueling. Just a non-stop grind where you could see every switchback and traverse to the top...which looked really far away. I put my earbuds in and fired up my audiobook and tried to keep my mind off it. I finally reached the top and ran easily down to the road and the aid station. There I repeated things as before and started up and over the next hill to where we would start the 14 mile northerly out and back. There is an aid station at that spot, which is where you can drop to the 50k, hang a left, and cruise down the road to the start/finish area. Historically lots of people do this because it’s the hottest part of the day, and you’ve just climbed 6k feet of vert in 30 miles. I won’t say the thought didn’t cross my mind! My buddy ended up calling it quits there.
The next 14 miles were described as “rolling” which I guess compared to what we’d done was true, but it was definitely a distinct climb and descent each way, with an aid station at the turnaround. There was a 30k and 50k going on at the same time, so there was quite a bit of traffic to deal with, which can be tedious when your legs are fried. It always puts me in a better mood to encourage others, and I needed it big time, so I acknowledged and gave a supportive word to every runner or hiker I encountered. I was doing a lot more walking than I would have liked, but I’m a firm believer in the idea that if you have to walk...walk with a purpose, so that’s what I did. There was no one thing that was bothering me. Sure it was hot, yeah my stomach was cranky, yes my feet were tired and sore and I was chafing quite a bit (the ice melting in my bandana would run down my shirt and onto my shorts where it would dry, leaving a hard crusty layer that defeated the multiple applications of glide I was putting on) but I was still moving at a decent clip and I knew I would be done soon enough. At the turnaround aid station I fueled up on Mountain Dew and watermelon, cooled off with some wet sponges, refilled my bandana, and started trucking back up the mountain. Within a few minutes I caught up to a guy I had ran a good stretch with at Angeles Crest 100 two years ago, and we hiked together for a few miles catching up. We parted ways when I started feeling good enough to do more running than hiking with about 7 miles to go. I took one ibuprofen with 2 hours to go, and another when I was an hour out, which helps to take the edge off the discomfort. (I don’t recommend anyone do this without trying it in training. There can be serious consequences to your kidneys if youre not hydrating properly. I’ve had several years experience using it sparingly with no negative effects, so I’ll continue to do it.
Finally I exited the trail and hit the last aid station, quickly filled my bottles half way (my arms were tired as hell from carrying them all day) , and started down the Jeep road. A mile later, I was on the highway and gingerly jogging downhill to the finish. Crossed the line to some great spectator cheers and received my medal. Time was 10:25 and I was 51st out of 166 starters and 120 finishers.
I walked around a little to keep the legs from cramping up, then hit the road for home, grabbing some Little Ceasars pizza along the way.
Overall I can’t complain about my performance. I’ve been doing this long enough to know that for every great race, you’ll have 3 where it’s nothing but work. I always try to remind myself to look around at all the beauty, interact with my fellow idiots, and appreciate that we GET to do this silly stuff. There are people suffering through much much worse in life, and not because they paid $200 to do it. I’m happy that my body held up really well, and this race gets it that much more ready for the real test come June 26th and August 4th, where I will ask way more if it, and will spend far longer in the pain cave!
As for gear:
I wore my Altra Timp’s, which I race anything longer than a 50k in, and they serve me pretty well. I almost always get a hotspot in the center of the ball of my right foot, the meaty part right below my toes, but it’s only ever become a blister once, during a hundred miler. Might have to try lubing that spot, or even taping it.
Socks were the tried and true injinji crew length.
Shorts were my new favorite Zoot PCH board shorts. Not too long, not too short, and they fit me perfectly.
Shirt was the same Patagonia Nine Trails shirt I’ve been using all this year so far. It’s polyester, but super soft without the feel of a normal tech shirt. Most importantly it’s a good fit on my dad bod.
Hat was a Boco technical trucker. Love their stuff so much I actually became a brand ambassador for them this year.
I carried two of the camelback Podium Chill insulated 21oz handhelds. They were enough for even those 9 mile stretches, kept ice for a decent amount of time, and have two pockets on each so I dont have to put stuff in the my shorts pockets, which I don’t like.
I’ve been using Metasalt tablets and they seem to work well. Not a single cramp in this race.
Watch was my Garmin 920xt. No complaints after 3 years of daily use.
Music/audio book was from a Sandisk Clip and Phillips earbuds. I’ve been using this same combo for a good 5-6 years now. I have to replace one or the other every couple, but they’re both cheap and work perfectly for my needs.
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#9304344 - 04/18/18 02:23 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11469
Loc: The OC
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Just cruised a 12 miler at a 7:28 overall pace. Tempo was fairly consistent except mile 10, apparently I went stupid and ran a 7:13. The run overall felt easy; as always, I had to consciously hold myself back.
Great job man. At this rate you're pretty much on track for a BQ with whatever race you choose. 
I always try to remind myself to look around at all the beauty, interact with my fellow idiots, and appreciate that we GET to do this silly stuff. There are people suffering through much much worse in life, and not because they paid $200 to do it.
Words to live by. Way to tough it out Chris. 
_________________________
09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#9305229 - 04/19/18 08:47 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Kevin Returneth]
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charlie_td1
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 39034
Loc: DC
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So to give you an idea of where my consistency USUALLY is at...
minus mile 2 (woops), this is on par with what I expect of myself. Recovery run, just keeping things loose, as my calf was a bit tight the other day:
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#9305324 - 04/19/18 10:02 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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Kevin Returneth
Jr Poster
Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 184
Loc: Best Coast
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Seems like you are running your recovery/easy runs way too fast. That looks like current MP or so. Maybe good if this is 'race pace' training [current capability]
Then again the fastest person I follow does nothing but 40 minute tempos with every.single workout (HMP -10s or so) and regularly podiums mass half races and has a 1:17 PR, eg a good day for her could buy an OTQ
What I mean, is, the mental energy required to 'tempo everything' is substantial. If you can hack it, why not. But for pure aerobic development, easy runs seem like a superior use of time. Tempos ARE important too, ofc. Maybe 80/20 or thereabouts [pfitz/daniels/etc]
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#9305465 - 04/19/18 11:24 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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Kevin Returneth
Jr Poster
Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 184
Loc: Best Coast
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ah that sounds better then
https://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/your-vdot-training-number
still, if your tempo pace is 6:50, the tables suggest 8:30 is your EZ pace,
your 5K race pace is about 19:50, 10k 41:20 or so, about a 1:31 half capability and a 3:10 marathoner == race paces
otherwise, every.single marathon program will suggest your easy pace is a bit too hot. But if mileage is low [30-40?] and the spirit is willing, why not.
The reason for easy mileage is because the body has 2 main energy systems, and it seems like even a third. A marathon is like 99% aerobic and building that system is all about easy miles. Race pace/tempo training are also vital, but exclusive tempo/race pace training will short change aerobic development somewhat BUT you will likely reap great benefits if you can handle that kind of workload in shorter stuff like a 10k or half.
Also if mileage is <40 mpw or something I dont think any of this matters. Most of these guides start around 55mpw as the bare minimum where the 80/20 ez/hard ratio starts to be required for most people depending on vaginal tenderness/mental fortitude.
If my vagina weren't so tender I'd try to mostly do tempo runs too because my mileage is so low. They just hurt too much [also probably I have an unrealistic tempo pace]
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#9305592 - 04/19/18 12:33 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Kevin Returneth]
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charlie_td1
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 39034
Loc: DC
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holy shit this is amazing
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#9305834 - 04/19/18 03:11 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered
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The Art of running
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#9305882 - 04/19/18 03:46 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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Kevin Returneth
Jr Poster
Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 184
Loc: Best Coast
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Anyone doing interval training has Paavo Nurmi to thank [blame]
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#9311826 - 04/29/18 11:44 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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charlie_td1
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 39034
Loc: DC
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I probably pushed a bit harder than I should have today, but I was feeling REALLY good. 2 mile warmup, then went 4 miles at goal marathon pace, then pulled back to my usualy 7:35ish cadence, and cool down of 1 mile. I'm super happy about this run, although I do not doubt that I will be feeling this tomorrow 
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#9312475 - 04/30/18 02:08 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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Daffy Cuck
Poster
Registered: 04/30/18
Posts: 250
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I had my first 'good' run since Feb and the start of allergy/flu season
an easy 10k where I held on to ~8:10/pace
in truth, it was somewhere between easy and tempo but it felt easy enough so I just kept at it. HR upper 130s. About where I 'raced' my SF half at like a month ago but that was extremely painful. Today it was easy. Still hacking up a little bit, and still doped up on allergy meds but its finally working a bit since I switched to [2] different types to take daily. Couple snot rockets per mile still heh
closed out a 26 mile week [lol] which is an up-tick for me lately [Ive had to do a zero and a 10 mile week in the last month or so]
I cant even do a 10k sub 7:00/mi heh. best effort so far missed that by about 2 mins overall [45:nn]
In fact, a 10K at sub 7:00 [<43:30 ET] would be a huge improvement for me
Just guessing but I dont get under 44 this year in a race/TT
Since I'm just screwing around while my health recovers (??), I did a bunch of 10K easy efforts last week and scattered around 50-53 minutes. Feels good
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#9313630 - 05/02/18 11:17 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11469
Loc: The OC
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Jebus that's nuts. And nice job Stickaz.
Busy weekend ahead. Kids get to run their 1 mile race (Kids Run the OC). I was planning to sit out the OC Marathon but got asked to pace a half marathon group. Free race entry and parking... why not?
Unfortunately, the big challenge will be running a 12:15 pace for the 2:40 bracket.
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#9313819 - 05/02/18 02:18 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered
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Pacing: I'm going to have to agree with stickz. My understanding is there really isn't such a thing as too slow for recovery/easy. Like I see a lot of 10-11minute miles from guys placing in ultras. Even altitude adjusting that works out to mid 9s. I'm starting to believe there are 2 paces of slow. LSR actually shouldn't be quite so slow since they're still a training run. But "junk" miles which are solely for the legs? You're looking to rest your cardio system. Active recovery, 115bpm, sort of shit
Hydration: really depends on temp or shade/sun. Generally 75 minutes is my window in spring/fall. Summer as short at 40 minutes (especially if in the sun). I'm a heavy sweater so I bring some sort of sodium (shotblox or nuun normally)
306 in a month, fuck.
I think I'm at 370 for the year. Which is still my best.
I think run AND biking combined I hit 270 in april, lol
Just decided to do a century in 2.5 weeks, lol
Half is 90 weeks out. My milage is good, but specificity training is garbage.
Lol, but I've got some awesome adventures planned/coming up.
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#9315340 - 05/04/18 12:41 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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charlie_td1
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 39034
Loc: DC
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I have a stomach bug and I'm going to go on a 5-6 mile run today. What's the over/under that I shit my pants? 
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#9315373 - 05/04/18 01:32 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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Daffy Cuck
Poster
Registered: 04/30/18
Posts: 250
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pretty solid unfortunately I'd bet
me I'm at [5] miles this week, yay. Going to be a tough scramble to get to 20 in the next 3 days heh [esp when I refuse to go over 7/8]
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#9315702 - 05/04/18 09:47 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Daffy Cuck]
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charlie_td1
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 39034
Loc: DC
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I DIDNT SHIT MY PANTS 
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#9316539 - 05/06/18 11:37 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11469
Loc: The OC
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Pacing was a success today. Lots of first timers in our group. Crossed the finish within a minute under goal.
Probably something I'd like to do again. Just a little closer to race pace lol.
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#9316793 - 05/07/18 11:13 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11469
Loc: The OC
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Yeah our run club sponsors a few of the bigger local races. I and another club member did the 2:40 group.
If you get the chance to do, definitely give it a go. Much more fun than I was anticipating.
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#9316811 - 05/07/18 11:42 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Design]
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charlie_td1
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 39034
Loc: DC
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