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#7523281 - 01/29/14 06:33 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
SJP0tato Offline
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Registered: 10/13/01
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Loc: Gilbert, Az
What do you guys do to work on improving your pace?
I've been a pretty slow runner, averaging a half-marathon pace of 10:15-10:30. This was for my first/only half so far.
I've been doing intervals lately (6:00 pace for 30 seconds followed by 1 min of 10:30 pace x 12), hoping it'll help out my speed during my 2nd upcoming half in March.
Seems crazy to me that some of you guys do 6:00 for your pace on a normal day.

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#7523684 - 01/29/14 10:22 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: SJP0tato]
swirlyS13drifta
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 Originally Posted By: SJP0tato
What do you guys do to work on improving your pace?
I've been a pretty slow runner, averaging a half-marathon pace of 10:15-10:30. This was for my first/only half so far.
I've been doing intervals lately (6:00 pace for 30 seconds followed by 1 min of 10:30 pace x 12), hoping it'll help out my speed during my 2nd upcoming half in March.
Seems crazy to me that some of you guys do 6:00 for your pace on a normal day.


Ok, you need to lengthen those intervals. Your intervals should be long enough that you still have to be aerobic. Based on your 1/2 time, I'm guessing you should be closer to 7-8/min pace.
Do 1/4 mile intervals(so about 1:45 runs)(7 pace)
do 1/2 mile intervals (about 3:45) (7:30 pace)
Do 1 mile intervals(those burn) (about 7:45-8 pace)
Notice as you go slightly slower with the longer distances. the point is to go fast, but a speed you could maintain.


Also add some "pace" runs. These are runs ran at a little faster than your goal. i.e. for you a goal might be 9:30 pace for your half, so run 3-4 miles at 9:20-ish. Then next week at a mile and keep that pace, keep increasing the distance and maintaining that slight faster than race pace.


You're probably a little late for speed and pace to make a huge difference, but it can help.

The basic school of thought I've heard is you have 3 types of "quality" runs: Long(for joints and patience), Pace/tempo(for the burn, i.e. lactic acid, and discomfort tolerance), and intervals (for your cardio systems and muscluar force). You don't want to to too much of the faster two, but once a week is probably fine.

/doesn't do 6/min pace on a normal day


Edited by swirlyS13drifta (01/29/14 10:24 AM)

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#7523750 - 01/29/14 10:42 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: ]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
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I went from doing one type of run "I'm going for a run haha" to now four types:

1. Long runs
2. Speed work (intervals, tempo, fartleks, etc)
3. Hill work
4. Recovery runs (which I've learned have to be slooow)

I'm no expert so I can't tell you what to do to get faster but I think the best training advice I've heard is that every run should have a defined purpose. Gone are the days of "I'm just gonna go out and run for a bit and then come home" - before you leave the door you should know what benefit you're trying to get from this run.

I thought I wouldn't like this additional structure but it turns out I love it! Anyway, something to think about.
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#7523813 - 01/29/14 11:07 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: 2000SiRacer]
swirlyS13drifta
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 Originally Posted By: 2000SiRacer
I went from doing one type of run "I'm going for a run haha" to now four types:

1. Long runs
2. Speed work (intervals, tempo, fartleks, etc)
3. Hill work
4. Recovery runs (which I've learned have to be slooow)

I'm no expert so I can't tell you what to do to get faster but I think the best training advice I've heard is that every run should have a defined purpose. Gone are the days of "I'm just gonna go out and run for a bit and then come home" - before you leave the door you should know what benefit you're trying to get from this run.

I thought I wouldn't like this additional structure but it turns out I love it! Anyway, something to think about.


I agree with that, but...
I think sometimes it's good to take a break from "training" every once in a while and just go out for a run.

But in general it's good advice, just don't forget why you first loved it(i.e. running just to run).

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#7523843 - 01/29/14 11:18 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: ]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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You just need to run more...simple as that. There's no real need for specific speed work at this point. What's your weekly mileage and number of runs? If your averaging 10:30 pace for a half I imagine you're doing lots of walking. If you build up mileage to where you can run 9-10 without walking, I guarantee your shorter runs will get way faster without doing any specific speedwork.


I didn't one single speedwork session for the first 3 years that I was running, and I spent all three of those years setting PR's at every distance (never went backwards at all). This was all by running a lot I ran easy when I felt like it, and ran harder when I felt like it.
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#7523848 - 01/29/14 11:19 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: ]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
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 Originally Posted By: swirlyS13drifta
 Originally Posted By: 2000SiRacer
I went from doing one type of run "I'm going for a run haha" to now four types:

1. Long runs
2. Speed work (intervals, tempo, fartleks, etc)
3. Hill work
4. Recovery runs (which I've learned have to be slooow)

I'm no expert so I can't tell you what to do to get faster but I think the best training advice I've heard is that every run should have a defined purpose. Gone are the days of "I'm just gonna go out and run for a bit and then come home" - before you leave the door you should know what benefit you're trying to get from this run.

I thought I wouldn't like this additional structure but it turns out I love it! Anyway, something to think about.


I agree with that, but...
I think sometimes it's good to take a break from "training" every once in a while and just go out for a run.

But in general it's good advice, just don't forget why you first loved it(i.e. running just to run).


My long runs and recovery runs feel like that, so I'm still getting plenty of running that doesn't feel like training. But yeah, good point, speed work in particular is really hard for me and I feel great afterwards but it sucks during. Tonight I have 3x2 mile hard (half marathon pace - and I tend to use my 'ideal' pace haha) and I'll be doing it on a treadmill. I've been dreading it since last night haha
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#7524082 - 01/29/14 12:18 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Ampsman in Extremis Offline
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I think the problem is people are afraid to hurt when they are running. They find that they can run comfortably at X:XX pace so thats what they run at and then they wonder why they dont improve doing the same run at the same pace 6 days a week.
Its all about going outside of your comfort zone.
I run 6-7 times a week and atleast 5 of those runs I am nervous about because of how I know I am going to feel during that run.
Its ok for your legs to burn, its ok to get a little dehydrated, its ok to puke a little bit.
When you are done you can sit down and crack a beer and say, you know what...I fucking killed it out there.
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#7524124 - 01/29/14 12:27 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Ampsman in Extremis]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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Fuckin A.

What's that saying: if you don't feel like puking at the end of a race, you didn't run hard enough. \:D

My brother coaches a running group of about 40 people. His biggest frustration are the people that refuse to push themselves at all during training, yet complain that they don't see improvements.


Edited by Mrs. Ironmom (01/29/14 12:30 PM)
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#7524132 - 01/29/14 12:29 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
Design Offline
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11466
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 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
You just need to run more...simple as that. There's no real need for specific speed work at this point. What's your weekly mileage and number of runs? If your averaging 10:30 pace for a half I imagine you're doing lots of walking. If you build up mileage to where you can run 9-10 without walking, I guarantee your shorter runs will get way faster without doing any specific speedwork.


I will echo this. I've simply focused on maintaining the longer training runs each week, with a couple 3-4 mile runs in between. Been doing it for a year and have been faster at each race I've attended. I know at some point I will plateau but the approach definitely works.




 Originally Posted By: ampsman
When you are done you can sit down and crack a beer and say, you know what...I fucking killed it out there.


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#7524147 - 01/29/14 12:33 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Ampsman in Extremis]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 42801
Loc: Colorado
 Originally Posted By: ampsman
I think the problem is people are afraid to hurt when they are running. They find that they can run comfortably at X:XX pace so thats what they run at and then they wonder why they dont improve doing the same run at the same pace 6 days a week.
Its all about going outside of your comfort zone.
I run 6-7 times a week and atleast 5 of those runs I am nervous about because of how I know I am going to feel during that run.
Its ok for your legs to burn, its ok to get a little dehydrated, its ok to puke a little bit.
When you are done you can sit down and crack a beer and say, you know what...I fucking killed it out there.


Well said, Donnie!

And I think you've hit at the root of my problems in 2013. The only runs I was nervous about were the 5-6 hour long runs because I ran everything at the same comfortable pace - only lots and lots of time on my feet would make it difficult. This strategy worked for the first couple years but it definitely isn't helping me anymore so for the first time ever I'm really nervous about runs and it's scary but lots of fun. And you feel like a million bucks afterwards for sure! Hard run followed by a quick soak in the springs and a cold beer? Heaven.

Although I feel like a total goober on the gym treadmill doing these workouts. There will be 2-3 of the usual crowd (i.e. women running 12 minute miles while reading Vogue - which is cool, whatever) and I'm in there panting like a pervert and throwing sweat in all directions. It's great
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#7524406 - 01/29/14 01:43 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
SJP0tato Offline
Member


Registered: 10/13/01
Posts: 818
Loc: Gilbert, Az
Thanks guys, this all sounds like stuff I need to work on.

 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
What's your weekly mileage and number of runs?

I'm still in newbie status, I was (and am again) doing 3 days of shorter runs 3-4 miles, and 1 long day (now at 10 miles).
I started up this routine last year in July or so (first time ever running) based loosely on the Hal Higdon program, and worked up to my first half marathon in late October (where I got the 10:30 average). I was having a lot of trouble with IT band pain with my right leg in the weeks leading to the half, so I cut the mileage way back for a couple months until just a few weeks ago where I started working back up.

Even with the time off, my speed does seem better than previous. I managed my first sub-10 min/mile pace for 10 miles this past Saturday (9:50). So this lends a lot of credit to Ironmom's suggestion to just keep working at it. I've been a lot more diligent to foam roll after every run for at least a few minutes since I started back up seriously.

As long as I can keep injuries away I think I'll mix in a little bit of intervals, and just keep at it.

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#7524518 - 01/29/14 02:07 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: SJP0tato]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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Registered: 03/12/01
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Sounds about right, and very similar to my start. I had a major case of ITBS during and after my first half, and then again after my first Ironman. I had to take about six weeks off completely, but I haven't had any issues ever since. Just take it easy, stay consistent in your training, and the speed will come.

One thing that I had great results with were a couple 30 in 30 months. Basically, make a point to run every day for a whole month. Doesnt have to be huge mileage (I set my minimum at 3 miles) but you'll be amazed at how your body will respond.
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#7524712 - 01/29/14 03:07 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
Design Offline
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11466
Loc: The OC
If you haven't already, maybe work in some mild resistance training. I've started working in deadlifts and back squats. HUGE difference in post-run recovery.
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#7525421 - 01/29/14 11:33 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
Rumbelstiltskin Offline
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Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 8757
Loc: So Cal
Fuck... I guess I'm doing Ragnar with some friends.
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#7527353 - 01/30/14 05:36 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Rumbelstiltskin]
Ampsman in Extremis Offline
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Registered: 04/10/00
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 Originally Posted By: Rumble
Fuck... I guess I'm doing Ragnar with some friends.


Is that a relay? Those are pretty fun but a pain in the ass to organize, I hope someone else volunteered to manage your team.

Did 3x1200m hill repeats on my lunch today at an average 15% grade. Burn baby!
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#7530264 - 02/01/14 12:51 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Ampsman in Extremis]
Ampsman in Extremis Offline
I PITY THE FOOL!
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Registered: 04/10/00
Posts: 15465
Loc: San Jose, Ca, USA
Fuck me. 15.6 miles and 6100 feet of vert.
Mile 13 alone had 1100 feet.

CHRISSSSS!!! You pumped and ready for tomorrow!!!
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#7530470 - 02/01/14 04:45 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Ampsman in Extremis]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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Registered: 03/12/01
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Fuck man...thats a workout!


I'm ready man. Just got back from the expo. 3000 people doing the full, and 22,000 doing the half! It was nuts down there. Thankfully we start an hour earlier, and the groups dont merge till 10 or so, and then we leave them again at 17 or so.


I've been chatting with Eric from URP. He's doing the full tomorrow as well, but hes fast as hell..shooting for 2:55. :wow:



My goal is to go out with the 3:05 pace group hang with them for as long as I can. I think I'll benefit from the drafting when we deal with the headwind on the beach. It'll also give me a bit of a cushion if I need to ease back later in the race.
I WILL be mentally strong in this race though...no fucking around. If it hurts, so what.
Keep your fingers crossed though.
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#7530504 - 02/01/14 05:17 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
Design Offline
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11466
Loc: The OC
Fortunately we deal with the headwind the first half of the race. I was there at opening yesterday. In and out in a breeze!
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#7530807 - 02/01/14 10:39 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
swirlyS13drifta
Unregistered



Best of luck Chris. Kill it motherfucker.
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#7530970 - 02/02/14 07:18 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: ]
It's Art Offline
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Registered: 03/01/13
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It was actually warm enough yesterday to go for a run, today too. The only sketchy parts were the ice patches and snow, my new running shoes didn't like that.


nothing crazy, ran 5.2 miles yesterday and I'll run the same loop again today.

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#7531703 - 02/02/14 03:23 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: It's Art]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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I'm gonna write up a race report later (once the official results are in) but I had a great race! Ended up with a 3:08:35. Ran a real smart and steady race till mile 21, till I turned around and there was a nasty headwind along with the last two decent sized hills. Slowed down a bit for 23 and 24, but kicked my ass into gear for the last 2. So glad to be done!
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#7531972 - 02/02/14 05:59 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
Design Offline
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Registered: 12/11/02
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Never doubted you for a second. Very well deserved.

Also pulled off a PR at Surf City, 13.1 @ 1:53:02. Next up: OC Chili Race #2 followed by the LA Marathon.
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#7533173 - 02/03/14 11:47 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
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Loc: Gehenna
Sounds like everybody in here is killing it! Great job guys!

Ironmom your time ia about 1:40 faster than my marathon time. Hard to imagine you could do another half-marathon before I'd finish my marathon, haha.

Keep up the awesome work guys!

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#7533177 - 02/03/14 11:48 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Lividentity]
It's Art Offline
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Just went for a 3 miler in a blizzard.


sucked though, thought I was gonna fuck my ankle cause it's slippery.

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#7533204 - 02/03/14 11:56 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: It's Art]
Impulsive Offline
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Registered: 11/28/99
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I buy spikes that slide over my shoes for icy days. Like $10 at Costco. Going to get cold this week here, so some shitty runs coming up.

Oddly, slipping and almost wiping out hurts my shoulder more than just about anything else; quick/loose movements I guess.
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#7533269 - 02/03/14 12:19 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Impulsive]
Design Offline
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You guys are serious troopers running outdoor in blizzards.

That and you must REALLY hate treadmills.
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#7533320 - 02/03/14 12:40 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Impulsive]
It's Art Offline
Bitch of the Deer
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Registered: 03/01/13
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 Originally Posted By: Impulsive
I buy spikes that slide over my shoes for icy days. Like $10 at Costco. Going to get cold this week here, so some shitty runs coming up.

Oddly, slipping and almost wiping out hurts my shoulder more than just about anything else; quick/loose movements I guess.



I have those, I forget what they're called though. I have them for work to slip over my boots. Cramp ons? or something.


anyway I couldn't run in them because I just couldn't.






and troopers? No. Idiots? Probably.

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#7533321 - 02/03/14 12:40 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
Impulsive Offline
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Registered: 11/28/99
Posts: 80870
Loc: Edmonton
Don't own a treadmill and I find them very boring. Running outside is typically alright, but you do get the odd horrible day (worst this year was -22F). Most of the time it's 15-20F and sunny. Sometimes warmer, sometimes colder.

I just have my routine and I hate making excuses for weather.
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#7533368 - 02/03/14 12:59 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Impulsive]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
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Loc: Colorado
If you guys are serious about running in snow and ice these are really your only option:



Kahtoola MICROspikes. They're $60 a pair and work miracles. $10 shit from CostCo will be just that and YakTrax are garbage.
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#7533372 - 02/03/14 01:01 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Impulsive Offline
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Registered: 11/28/99
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Loc: Edmonton
I have no issues with my costco slip on spikes. Plus, there is still plenty of dry pavement on my run and something too aggressive wouldn't work well.
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#7533411 - 02/03/14 01:11 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Impulsive]
swirlyS13drifta
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 Originally Posted By: Impulsive
Don't own a treadmill and I find them very boring. Running outside is typically alright, but you do get the odd horrible day (worst this year was -22F). Most of the time it's 15-20F and sunny. Sometimes warmer, sometimes colder.

I just have my routine and I hate making excuses for weather.

I'll take 15-20 over 33 and rainy. Getting soaked and cold sucks.

But, I never have to worry about anything with a -

It's sort of fun when it's unique. Still impressed you guys do it week after week.

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#7533660 - 02/03/14 02:22 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: ]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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Registered: 03/12/01
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 Originally Posted By: swirlyS13drifta
 Originally Posted By: Impulsive
Don't own a treadmill and I find them very boring. Running outside is typically alright, but you do get the odd horrible day (worst this year was -22F). Most of the time it's 15-20F and sunny. Sometimes warmer, sometimes colder.

I just have my routine and I hate making excuses for weather.

I'll take 15-20 over 33 and rainy. Getting soaked and cold sucks.

But, I never have to worry about anything with a -

It's sort of fun when it's unique. Still impressed you guys do it week after week.


What's the forecast looking like this weekend? I bought a nice Marmot running wind/rain jacket that I still haven't used. \:D
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#7533674 - 02/03/14 02:25 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Lividentity]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Lividentity
Sounds like everybody in here is killing it! Great job guys!

Ironmom your time ia about 1:40 faster than my marathon time. Hard to imagine you could do another half-marathon before I'd finish my marathon, haha.

Keep up the awesome work guys!


Thanks man. Trust me....if you'd told me 3 years ago that Id be able to run a marathon at that pace Id have said no freaking way. Just proves that lack of natural ability and age are no excuse. If you put in the time and effort, you can do way more than you think you can.

The last 5 of this race was pure mental determination though.
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#7533804 - 02/03/14 03:16 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: ]
It's Art Offline
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you'd take 15-20? How about -6?
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#7533853 - 02/03/14 03:30 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: It's Art]
swirlyS13drifta
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Artomantium
you'd take 15-20? How about -6?

I'd go snowboarding!

Yeah, I actually can't imagine how to stay warm, but not too warm at that temp.
I bet I'd either overdress and sweat myself to a popsicle or just plain freeze.

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