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#7790113 - 07/24/14 09:58 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
gamby Offline
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OK stickaz--I actually had you in mind for today's ride. As promised, I did my 17.5 mile flat path flat out. Missed the 20mph average by .3 mph. \:\( I was KILLING myself for that average speed! There was a minor headwind in some sections that I had to muscle through, but it's also an out-and-back course.

Some screenshots:





2 mile warmup/2 mile cooldown before/after that run, FWIW.
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#7790143 - 07/24/14 10:25 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: gamby]
nato2377 Offline
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im going to go out and do a 1 hr TT effort here after this weekend. this is my longest TT segment i have a time for, and this was 2 years ago.



which is almost 25 mph




i have a shorter one


at almost 26
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#7790144 - 07/24/14 10:25 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: gamby]
The Mighty BellRacer Online content
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Mile 9 rocked ya.
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#7790149 - 07/24/14 10:29 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
gamby Offline
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But dayum nigga you fast doe
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#7790160 - 07/24/14 10:37 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: gamby]
nato2377 Offline
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i have another 100 mile mtb race sat but next week ill go do a 10 mile out and back and see what i get \:\)
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#7790166 - 07/24/14 10:48 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
gamby Offline
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I'll have tissues handy so I may weep freely after seeing your result.
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#7790603 - 07/25/14 10:26 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: gamby]
stickaz_old Offline
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Pretty sick dude. I now believe firmly (once again) that you are faster than me. The other guys in here I don't think I could even draft heh.

I'm considering scouting a 40km route to train on but I'd rather get on the MTB and get some fun in (and hills), ah well.

G@mby were u in aero bars on that? I always ride like that now lol cry
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#7791755 - 07/26/14 12:08 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
gamby Offline
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No aerobars (steering with my elbows and no brakes scares me). That was 2/3 in the hoods and 1/3 in the drops.
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#7791963 - 07/26/14 11:20 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: gamby]
stickaz_old Offline
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OK your definitely faster than. I was a little twitchy at first but got over it. On a descent with some turns in it I'll move to the drops. Its at least .5 mph if not .75mph of an advantage at the speeds I roll on flats (21-22 mostly)

Biggest benefit: holding 20-ish when gassed easier ;\)
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#7792502 - 07/26/14 08:21 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
nato2377 Offline
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So today I raced Wilderness 101 in Coburn, PA which is close to PSU in State College. The weather was supposed to be nice all weekend so all I brought to the race was my summer skin suit which is mostly mesh. I wake up around 5am and hear rain. shit. It was 58 degrees and raining and I had nothing warm. I was like this is going to suck so bad. Well the race started at 7am and the rain stopped 15 min or so later. So we roll out on a neutral start for a few miles until the first climb. Neutral by no means, means slow. I rolled up front with the pros and guys who would win their respective classes, we we were rolling all of 20mph on the road. We get to the first climb and I settle into my own pace and not worry about the other around me. Its going to be a long day I kept telling myself. The first climb was a hefty cat3 climb, 4.5 miles at 5% and over 1000ft of gain. This was just the first of a full day of cat2 and cat3 climbs. The group separated and I slid back off the front group and was in a group of about 15 others. We crest the hill and our group was solidly together with no one in sight behind or in front. We rode pretty hard, taking turns at the front and low and behold about 50 minutes in, we caught the lead group. The pace seemed awfully slow for the leaders but I wasnt complaining. I knew it wouldnt last forever. I even worked my way through and sat on Jeremiah Bishop's wheel a bit on the flat sections. Felt so pro \:\) We rolled into aid station 1 which was 19 miles into the race in a swift 1 hour and 9 minutes. From there we made a turn off the gravel roads into the first double track climb of the day and this is where the race splintered. I made sure to keep my own pace and not ride about what I wanted to do. The rest of the day was pretty much this. Climb a gravel road for 20-40 minutes and bomb back down on the biggest, rockiest, worst single track you could think of. Its like they thought "what is the worst way to bring these guys back down?" Bouncing over rocks with both wheels locked and sliding while death gripping the bars was not much fun. I rode most of the singletrack like a little bitch. Luckily there wasn't much of it since when I would get to the bottom, it hurt to open my hands. I felt like I was riding really strong at my current pace so I just stuck with it. I was with 4 or 5 guys that I would yo yo with. They would pass me on the downhill and Id catch back up on the hills. This was pretty much the whole race...gravel up, single track down. Towards the end I dropped the guys I was with and with 10 to go, I put my head down and pushed. I was hoping to get a top 20 but I ended up 27th in my class and 31st overall out of a little over 200. My race time was 8 hours 11 minutes.
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#7792506 - 07/26/14 08:27 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 Offline
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Elevation


the three climbs in the middle were the worst.

Edited by nato2377 (07/26/14 08:44 PM)
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#7792541 - 07/26/14 09:03 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
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Loc: Denver, CO
Dirtwire.tv vid

http://dirtwire.tv/2013/08/wilderness-101-the-documentary-2/
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#7792563 - 07/26/14 09:22 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
stickaz_old Offline
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kind of embarassing to post this after that beast effort but here it is anyways
one of my faster segments recently. In the middle of a 15-mile casual loop [after just doing 1-mile jog repeats earlier]-->CN: 4.5m segment, flat, avg'd 22.2, not racing it or anything but pushing it a bit [137 avg HR] which I guess doesn't sound very high on second thought heh
my first ever ride in my new chinese special amazon bibs ;\)
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#7792667 - 07/26/14 11:08 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
gamby Offline
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Registered: 11/01/99
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 Originally Posted By: stickaz
OK your definitely faster than.


Meh. Give it time. Good segment doe \:\)

That sounds like misery, nato. 8+ hours of misery.
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#7793157 - 07/27/14 02:13 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: gamby]
shamrok Offline
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Going on a week of no exercise or bike joy. I want to kill people .... Right... Now
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#7795181 - 07/28/14 07:16 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: gamby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
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Loc: Denver, CO
 Originally Posted By: g@mby
 Originally Posted By: stickaz
OK your definitely faster than.


Meh. Give it time. Good segment doe \:\)

That sounds like misery, nato. 8+ hours of misery.


it wasnt actually that bad. it was def the "easiest" one so far. i mean, the climbs werent super steep, just loooong, there wasnt much single track, but it did suck...crazy rocky. dont get me wrong, it was hard, and i was pooped but it didnt break me like mohican did. i have shenandoah 100 aug 31 which will be my last one, what dat 16 mile climb do doe
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#7797093 - 07/29/14 06:53 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
Risky Business Offline
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 Originally Posted By: stickaz
kind of embarassing to post this after that beast effort but here it is anyways
one of my faster segments recently. In the middle of a 15-mile casual loop [after just doing 1-mile jog repeats earlier]-->CN: 4.5m segment, flat, avg'd 22.2, not racing it or anything but pushing it a bit [137 avg HR] which I guess doesn't sound very high on second thought heh
my first ever ride in my new chinese special amazon bibs ;\)


I am waiting for the day to see what you can actually do if just once, and i mean ONCE, just push yourself a little. Dafaq is wrong with you bruh, you aren't gonna drop down from a stroke. You have a lot left in the tank. Embrace the pain.
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#7797195 - 07/29/14 07:44 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: Risky Business]
stickaz_old Offline
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Isn't there more merit to someone like me [fast swimmer, avg biker, slow runner] doing zone 3 HR training primarily? Also not mentioned on that ride but you can see it if you click the details---I slowed to a crawl and probably gave up 20s on that segment just rolling behind a family out for a sunday cruise on both sides of the bike highway. not a huge deal but it means I really probably avgd about 23 mph. I know... yawn.

I mean thats the training program I'm following. Well other than being a basic bitch to my swim coach [do whatever she says], and tons of anaerobic training /sprint training there as always.

I want to be fast in international distance triathlons [1500m swim, 40k bike, 10k run] so I train in zone 3/4 primarily. Isn't that right? Actually scratch that: I want to be fast on the bike and the run and don't care about the 1500m swim distance--I swim because it makes me catch more waves.

I'm a firm believer in the 'train slow---be fast' approach ;\)
_________________________
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#7797247 - 07/29/14 08:13 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
Risky Business Offline
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I am not a nato3204820394 to give advice, so wait for him to chime in. All I am saying is your rides are always at like 50% effort or something.

Take one day and go balls to the wall, see what you are capable of At least get your max HR up. 147? That's my avg when reading CSI OT.
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#7797256 - 07/29/14 08:18 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: Risky Business]
nato2377 Offline
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you want to vary your training. i don't follow any plans or have a coach, I just mix things up. one day do hills and work on threshold, another day flatter and faster, easy spin one day or 2, then a nice tempo (z3) ride, long rides in z2 and 3...etc. just vary it. fwiw i do all my intervals pretty much on hills. i firmly believe the more hills you ride, the faster you will get. even when i do recovery days, i climb. just slow.
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#7797259 - 07/29/14 08:20 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 Offline
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Loc: Denver, CO
also, if any of your mountain bikers need/want to upgrade your brakes, i have a complete 2013 shimano xt brake set with everything, rotors and all, new and in unopened bags.
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#7797262 - 07/29/14 08:21 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 Offline
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Loc: Denver, CO
yeah and what risky said, get that HR up, when i go hard on rides, i get that bad boy to mid 190s
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#7797269 - 07/29/14 08:26 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
Risky Business Offline
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 Originally Posted By: nato2377
i firmly believe the more hills you ride, the faster you will get. even when i do recovery days, i climb. just slow.


This seems to be the most common/correct advice from anyone worth listening to. All the fast guys are out there doing hills/hill repeats/etc.
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#7797372 - 07/29/14 09:43 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: Risky Business]
shamrok Offline
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hankering to pick of a fixed gear/ss for winter training - worth it? i tend to switch to singlespeed mtb after races end in Nov
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<@jsmolaptop> this pizza is out of line
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<@jsmolaptop> it's like a cheesy foodcock brutally fucking my face and ejaculating pure victory down my throat

Because IRC is just filled with gems like this

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#7797475 - 07/29/14 10:50 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: shamrok]
JT Offline
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 Originally Posted By: shamrok
hankering to pick of a fixed gear/ss for winter training - worth it? i tend to switch to singlespeed mtb after races end in Nov


I just built up another one out of boredom, tons of fun. Go for it!
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#7797519 - 07/29/14 11:36 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: JT]
gamby Offline
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Something to be said for building base miles, but yeah, hills, especially on a singlespeed, make you stronger and thus faster.

Speaking of hills, another PR for tonight's TT


Official time was 35:57, so yeah--stoked to finally break into the 35's.
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#7797628 - 07/30/14 07:04 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: gamby]
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What elevation?
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#7798161 - 07/30/14 11:00 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: Risky Business]
gamby Offline
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Mapmyride kinda sucks with elevation. It says that climb is something like a 3 or 400ft gain, but I dunno. It's a bitch of a 3-tiered climb over a couple of miles and then there's a a few miles of descents at the end.
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#7798642 - 07/30/14 02:58 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: gamby]
stickaz_old Offline
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Great job G@mby!

Well I've thought about the feedback here and I've decided to officially back-off of my bike training for a little while. [if you'll allow me calling my daily ~9.0m/each way commute 'training']. So pretty much the opposite of what was suggested. My bad.

basically just an honest self-evaluation here regarding battling burnout and the fact that I am still well below median in the run while possibly in the top-third already on the bike.

But I think I will add a day every week if I can of mtbiking in the santa cruz mtns to get some decent vert in [3k-6k easy in 1-2 hrs]. Woot. It's been too long.

Bonus pts: I'm guessing based on the feedback that this will do more for my biking anyways that I have some kind of a base level of fitness already [~3k miles/yr biked flat ground]

Once my 'run' has improved to mid-pack level or so I'll put more time back into the bike. I'm basically battling fatigue/burnout weekly at my ~10 hr of cardio/week level--it's a real issue for me. I'm trading some biking hrs for run hours. I know--who cares lol.

Just some numbers: I've avg'd 19.9 on my first sprint tri and the bike leg snuck me into the top 1/3 in that race. On the second one I avg'd about the same but with ~300' of elevation--20.0 mph --after completely bonking on the swim...at the swim exit I wanted to quit lol. I was top 1/3 there also. Both races my run was bottom third lol--close to 9:00 miles---uggh!

So in other words--duh. I look at people like [less_than_mike] or nato or the other people that put up these crazy ~23+mph segments and I'm very impressed. The amount of work required for me to get there must be insane. However I know I can quickly get my 10k pace down to sub 8:00 miles ;\) ;\)
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#7799354 - 07/31/14 12:19 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
gamby Offline
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Registered: 11/01/99
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 Originally Posted By: stickaz

So in other words--duh. I look at people like [less_than_mike] or nato or the other people that put up these crazy ~23+mph segments and I'm very impressed. The amount of work required for me to get there must be insane. However I know I can quickly get my 10k pace down to sub 8:00 miles ;\) ;\)


Keep in mind, in this "everyone gets a trophy" time we're in, we still have to accept that there is such a thing as natural talent. Nato has it, as does shamrok. Keep trying to improve and see what happens. If I got discouraged by others, I wouldn't even bother time trialing. I race the clock.
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#7802664 - 08/02/14 01:15 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: gamby]
Risky Business Offline
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@nato

What's your cadence like on your rides...difference between regular riding days during the week vs. race day, etc.
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#7802838 - 08/02/14 04:55 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: Risky Business]
shamrok Offline
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lol natural talent and me - yeaaah right
any talent left is relegated to hanging out on the couch and having to take pants/undies off one leg so I can keep my leg straight while on the can.
_________________________
<@jsmolaptop> this pizza is out of line
<@jsmolaptop> fucking rude
<@jsmolaptop> it's like a cheesy foodcock brutally fucking my face and ejaculating pure victory down my throat

Because IRC is just filled with gems like this

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#7802914 - 08/02/14 06:54 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: shamrok]
gamby Offline
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Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 40865
Loc: RI
OK--maybe only nato has the natural talent
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#7803093 - 08/02/14 09:49 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: gamby]
Risky Business Offline
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Cycling doesn't require talent, there is no skill (talking about road here, not mtb). You get out what you put into it.
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#7803137 - 08/02/14 10:57 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: Risky Business]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3471
Loc: Denver, CO
 Originally Posted By: Risky Business Bandit
@nato

What's your cadence like on your rides...difference between regular riding days during the week vs. race day, etc.


i dont measure my cadence actually. im a spinner, not a masher, so the higher rpms i can spin the better, usually in the 85-100 range. i dont change anything between reg riding and races. i might mash more in a race just to keep momentum where as if im just riding around id spin it
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