Maybe consider working in some basics (i.e. deadlifts and back squats) to maintain core. I've found it's been helping tremendously in my recovery.

I had a mini-mileage breakthrough myself this week. Although my LSR (long/slow run] yesterday SUCKED [was getting hot, I wasnt feeling it, had to stop 2x], I did ~17 miles last week and am NOT particularly sore this week and getting out of bed in the morning wasnt really terribly sore. [normally I'd hobble to the bathroom /old]

seems like you're going too fast on your long runs? /alsojealous

seems like you're going too fast on your long runs? /alsojealous

I'm a firm believer in lots of miles at race pace...especially once you have a decent base. Only way to run 26 miles at X:XX pace is to do lots of running at that same pace.

huh I didn't know it was long-slow vs 'race pace' vs 'tempo' vs 'speed work', but I guess I'm wrong. Thought they worked together/additive. Anyways I like running slow hehe. I am also quite slow. Probably related

I think most training plans are geared towards building endurance of the casual runner; to maximize benefits and minimize risk of injury. I absolutely agree that the more often we can run at or above our race pace, the better. Just not always the easiest way to build up reliably.

For first time runners, or those with previous injuries, I think an all-out approach is far too risky. But my opinion is from a relatively novice point of view (compared to others participating here).

Yeah, I can't critisize Chris's methods, because they've clearly worked for him. Much better than my methods have for me.

But what my mind/lungs are capable, aren't always what my total body is capable of.

Pace runs are critical, but most programs don't have you running near your goal race at your goal pace. Because most people will be fatigued. If you're truly giving your 100% to reach a pace/distance, you'll need a recovery.

So turning your Long Runs into Pace runs seems like a recepe for Most people to see injuries.

I'd say everything I've seen says elite runners would be at even higher risk of over-training if they just went out and did say 50% of their miles at race pace/effort. Not training at maximum isn't just for us mortals/couch potatoes...

I think most training plans are geared towards building endurance of the casual runner; to maximize benefits and minimize risk of injury. I absolutely agree that the more often we can run at or above our race pace, the better. Just not always the easiest way to build up reliably.

For first time runners, or those with previous injuries, I think an all-out approach is far too risky. But my opinion is from a relatively novice point of view (compared to others participating here).

I just know that as a beginner/newb I really could not predict a race pace for my first marathon. I could cite a goal pace but the two are not necessarily one in the same. So Hal Higdon telling me to run slower than my race pace didn't make a whole lot of sense to me since I really didn't know what my body was capable of over that distance.

Now I'm training for my second and I think my goal pace and a realistic race pace are more closely aligned than before provided I don't get hurt again.

But I have never felt like I'm going all out on my long runs. And I don't think I'm capable of going all out in a marathon. I'm not even sure what that would mean for me. Running at or just short of lactate threshold the whole time? I'm still learning to strike the balance between getting the best time I'm capable of while not running out of gas before the end.

Anyways, I think my long runs will hopefully be at "race pace" which for me is finish standing up and hopefully run the whole thing without hurting myself, but definitely challenging myself some too.

Many seasoned runners like to suggest 1 min/mi slower than your best half marathon time (depending on how many or recently you've run).

When training for LA, I started with a goal of finishing @ 10 min/mi based on when I had started my training (had just completed LB Half @ 1:58 prior to starting). That approach worked very well. However, taking that approach and then trying to do a sub-4 hour marathon 8 weeks later... I had to slow down by mile 16.

Keeping things going here.

Scored another personal best in speed training this week; 6 miles @ 47:09 (7:52/mi). Feeling strong and ready for Surf City 10 this Sunday.

Going to try and stick with the 10mi/80:00 pace group for as long as possible. If things go well, I might have a shot and a sub-1:45 in the Vegas half marathon in 3 weeks.

*fingers crossed*