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#3466988 - 02/09/09 10:05 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: CLAY'S 99SI]
Panda Express Offline
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#3467276 - 02/10/09 12:45 AM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: scootergeek]
progressi Offline
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OK Scott,I found it,but PLEASE-its not my deal,I cant verify,its just something Im passing along. Ive got more I'll post at the bottom,but it does seem like the motors are very different. I seem to recall talking to a Mitsu engineer before the Evo X launched that the different mfgrs went their own ways after basic castings were done. Maybe its the base engines that are similar.

 Quote:
Ok, let's start with, Oh...what's that?... NOT FORGED MAHLE PISTONS LIKE THE 4B11 IN THE X!? Oh no... they're cast. Second, the SRT4 uses a balance shaft, something that the 4B11 doesn't need because of it's DIFFERENT, LESS VIBRATION PRONE, AND MORE REV FRIENDLY SQUARE BORE AND STROKE DESIGN. Third, the exhaust valves are different, as is the entire cylinder head design. It shares it's basic layout but that's it. Different valve design, different port design, etc.

Fourth, the crank is obviously different because the stroke is different, but the important thing worth mentioning is that the crank is shared with the N/A caliber version as well. Although still forged, it is not a crossdrilled and FULLY COUNTERWEIGHTED unit like the one in the 4B11. Fifth, as I mentioned earlier in a different post, the sleeve and water jacket design are different. The variable cam timing system are totally different as well. Anyone who knows anything about engine design would agree that the differences in these two motors are night and day.

Aside from the basic structure of the block on the outside, they are worlds apart. Oh, and don't ever assume that because you work at a dealership that you know more than someone who doens't. Every salesman or manager that I've ever talked to at any dealership knows about as much technical details on the cars that they sell as I know about nuclear physics. Who's talking out of their a** now? Have a nice day


Here's a specific quote regarding what seperates the Caliber 4B11 from the Evo:

 Quote:

To achieve its high-performance Dodge Caliber SRT4 configuration, the aluminium 2.4-litre World Engine block is specially machined for increased water and oil flow. Unique cast pistons travel within iron cylinder liners, and are cooled by oil squirters and affixed to forged connecting rods for high-revving reliability.

Tri-metal bearings are used for the connecting rods and crankshaft for high-performance durability. A unique oil pump/balance shaft module keeps the reciprocating assembly well-lubricated and running smoothly. An external cooler keeps oil temperatures within a safe range.

The aluminium cylinder heads are also a World Engine casting equipped with unique high-temperature exhaust valves. VVT uses computer mapping to open and close intake and exhaust valves at optimal points for efficient combustion and flow. The camshaft and micro-alloy steel crankshaft, shared with the non-turbocharged 2.4-litre World Engine, are fully capable of handling these high-horsepower loads.

Free-flow induction begins with an all-new air cleaner assembly that draws through an opening in a front chassis cross member for proximity to cool air. The air is then compressed in a TD04 turbocharger specially configured for the engine’s inlet and outlet packaging requirements, and sent through an intercooler to a 57mm throttle body.


Well,there you go I guess,unless its all complete BS it seems ALL the internals are different,and the blocks have at least signifigant differences (cylinder bores and bores/oiling passages for the Dodge balance shafts).

It seems like pretty specific info to be completely fabricated and accepted. IDK though-like I said I just read it on another forum.

For all I know the Genesis is closer.

Edit: Here's where it's sourced from:
 Quote:
Here is an article citing info from Pete Gladysz, Senior Manager – Powertrain, SRT.


And there's this claim too,which I have no idea where he got his info from,take it for what you will:
 Quote:
They use the same block as a base, but that's it. They aren't cast the same way, or designed the same way. The internals in the X are much stronger, the actual bracing of the block is stronger, the sleeve design and water jacket are totally different, the cylinder head is much better on the X, the variable cam timing system on the X is far superior, the list goes on and on. You have no idea what you are talking about if you think that the caliber srt-4's engine can hold a candle to the 4b11 in the X.

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#3467472 - 02/10/09 02:17 AM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: LowTech302]
cliff st-clair Offline
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 Originally Posted By: LowTech302
I think it looks sexy as hell. I debated waiting for them to hit the lots when I was shopping in November, but I didn't want a coupe very much and defiantly not one with a useless backseat, so that kinda ruled it out. IMO it looks better than the 370Z, although I'm sure the 370Z will win out in performance. If only they had made a V8 model, I just might have reconsidered my need for a usable backseat lol.


I agree it looks better than the 370z and even the G37 as well. Especially with nice wheels, the Genesis looks stunning. If they did the right thing and put a forged internals, decently sized turbo four banger in the base version, then Hyundai might just get my money sometime this year.
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#3467804 - 02/10/09 08:47 AM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: progressi]
scootergeek Offline
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 Originally Posted By: progressi

 Quote:
They use the same block as a base, but that's it. They aren't cast the same way, or designed the same way. The internals in the X are much stronger, the actual bracing of the block is stronger, the sleeve design and water jacket are totally different, the cylinder head is much better on the X, the variable cam timing system on the X is far superior, the list goes on and on. You have no idea what you are talking about if you think that the caliber srt-4's engine can hold a candle to the 4b11 in the X.


I'll take their words for it, but the dude jacking off to the Evo X is a fanboi dick - it comes across clearly in his writing. Which is funny given how most of the Evo guys seem to feel about the X.

*EDIT* Just read that thread on evolutionm.net. Fuck those guys, I'm not taking anything they say with any confidence beyond things are different between the 2.0 and the 2.4.

cheers,
scott


Edited by scootergeek (02/10/09 08:52 AM)
Edit Reason: What a ricetastic fanboi fucktard thread that was
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#3467933 - 02/10/09 09:52 AM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: scootergeek]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
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Couldn't that be re-written as "this is where power dies/ends"?

pwned by grammar?

I like this car... if only I wasn't so against buying new cars... let-alone first-year cars.
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#3468173 - 02/10/09 11:20 AM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
LS1Formula Offline
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I like the profile of the Genesis more than the G37. The sheet metal looks tighter, less bloated. It might not be a world-beater, but it looks like a helluva bargain for a 300hp rear drive sport coupe.
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#3468297 - 02/10/09 12:12 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: Impulsive]
interpol Offline
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Registered: 01/31/07
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wow i'm actually massively impressed by this thing... the SE model sounds awesome

HID headlights
Aluminum pedals
Manual A/C
19-inch alloy wheels
High performance Bridgestone Potenza RE050A summer tires
Brembo braking system with monobloc four-piston calipers (13.6" fronts, 13" rear!!!!!!)
SE track-tuned suspension / front strut brace
Limited-slip differential
Black leather bolsters / red cloth insert seats
Rear spoiler
Aero wiper blades

goddamn son... this might be a car to watch
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#3468331 - 02/10/09 12:27 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: interpol]
UglyValiant Offline
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progressi, scootergeek...iirc, the heads/blocks are much the same on the world engine. The basic head (port designs, combustion chambers, head fasteners/etc) are the same. In the lower NA displacements, much of the engine is indeed similar b/w hyundai/mitsu/mopar. Valve timing (IE cams and cam timing management), intake and exhaust manifolds are the big difference, with each company following their own design philosophies.


He's correct...the evo X and SRT4 do use different pistons...but this is naturally true due to the use of different stroke. They may use individually different valves, cams, turbo...true; but this doesn't change the fact they are basically the same engine.

The fanboi is smoking crack though. Listen, if I put a 4" stroke crank in my small block mopar, it's still a small block mopar. A Chevy 305 small block and a chevy 350 are still chevy small blocks...it's not like "dude, just put different valve, cam, and crank and you'll have a nice Ford 351 cleavland!"

He's a retard, and I'd appreciate if you pass along the message.
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#3468847 - 02/10/09 03:31 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: UglyValiant]
neonmike22 Offline
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I know it's not 1998 anymore, but i really wish those were 2800lbs and not 3300lbs.
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#3469434 - 02/10/09 07:02 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: neonmike22]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
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C'mon...
Not every car can be an s2000.
I'm sure Honda's paid someone off to keep the s2000 the best car EVER.
Don't expect to ever see another car that can stack up to it.
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#3469596 - 02/10/09 08:06 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: CLAY'S 99SI]
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#3469791 - 02/10/09 09:24 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: neonmike22]
OnyxEros Offline
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 Originally Posted By: neonmike22
I know it's not 1998 anymore, but i really wish those were 2800lbs and not 3300lbs.


back in 98 putting 18in wheels on a 'sports car' was pushing it. The FD came with 16's the S2k came with 16's and both were around 2800lbs.

The days of low weight are over because cars are just physically bigger than they use to be. even the mx5 grew in dimentions.

it's sad really but I am excited for the genesis coupe
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#3469933 - 02/10/09 10:02 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: OnyxEros]
Submission Offline
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that car looks smokin hot in black and pretty good in red. i'm definately rethinking hyundai over these cars, except for the ugly grill
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#3469940 - 02/10/09 10:04 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: OnyxEros]
Serendipitous Offline
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Well, that's not entirely true. Mazda makes a coupe with tidy dimensions that weighs right around 3000lbs. RWD, too.

The NC Miata (I can't bring myself to call it the MX-5) weighs the same as the 2001-2005 NBs did. Though you are right, they are a little bit bigger.

The Genesis looks like a winner on paper (and in pictures). I hope it is as good as it sounds like it will be.


Edited by Serendipitous (02/10/09 10:05 PM)
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#3470075 - 02/10/09 10:54 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: Serendipitous]
preludepower Offline
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I found the pics of the EVO versus Genesis rods and pistons. Looks to me like the Genesis is beefier.....

Pic below is a piston and rod from a 4B11T (EVOX)


Pic below is a piston and rod from the Theta (GenCoupe)

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#3470145 - 02/10/09 11:33 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: preludepower]
SpcNA[ZX] Offline
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 Quote:
The aluminum alloy engine block, which is formed using high-pressure die-cast method, has a unique Metaldyne-supplied cassette-type balance shaft module with a two-stage oil pump built-in. In the lower-end, the block is reinforced by a ladder frame. Other notable features include fracture-split sinter-forged connecting rods and stainless-steel exhaust manifold.


Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting, the above was taken from wikipedia however. I'll take one of these in black, the 2.0T R-Spec to be exact.
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#3472254 - 02/11/09 05:00 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: SpcNA[ZX]]
Serendipitous Offline
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Pricing information released (link to Out There):

http://forums.clubsi.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/3471424
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#3472292 - 02/11/09 05:10 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: Serendipitous]
FireInTheWhole Offline
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It is pretty cool, but I just don't like the front end.
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#3472354 - 02/11/09 05:49 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: FireInTheWhole]
fellfrosch7 Offline
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As said in the OT thread... 2.0T R-Spec for $23.7k is a winner. 6-speed manual, Brembos, LSD, and 19's.
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#3472472 - 02/11/09 06:47 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: fellfrosch7]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
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Wow...
22k for a base 2L?
I might trade the wagon in on one!
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#3472513 - 02/11/09 07:02 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
SpcNA[ZX] Offline
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As said above, the 2.0t R-Spec is an awesome deal as long as the thing doesn't explode in your face.
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#3472578 - 02/11/09 07:24 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: Panda Express]
progressi Offline
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Ive seen one year old Sonatas selling for half MSRP. My only experience with a Hyundai dealership was horrible-used car Lemon Lot horrible. Complete con artists. Warranty coverage and even paid for vehicle maintenence was very bad.

Id have to ask Scooter,but are we enjoying hot rod Hyundais on the backs of slave labor? Its an honest question.

But wow,the pricing,the warranty,the specs and the possible performance is astounding. Very impressive. If you werent afraid to give up on the warranty you could get a sweet low mileage stock FRC that price though-just saying.

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#3472721 - 02/11/09 08:31 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: progressi]
scootergeek Offline
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Registered: 07/24/00
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 Originally Posted By: progressi

Id have to ask Scooter,but are we enjoying hot rod Hyundais on the backs of slave labor? Its an honest question.


No, not from Korea anyway. Their union makes less than the UAW, but is much tighter knit. In 1999, Hyundai was in dire straights and wanted to axe 35,000 jobs, all in Seoul. The union took over the factories, threw the management out and held them until a better agreement was reached. Nearby residents and family members brought them food. It was straight out of the great CIO sit down strikes of the 30's. The end result was 3,500 early retirements and the 10 year, 100k mile warranty to boost sales. Which seems to have worked for them - though that said, I haven't kept up on the news from there since then.

Those guys were my heroes. Everyone hates on the UAW for some supposed stranglehold on the dumbestic 3, but my gripes about the union were the exact opposite. There's neither the courage nor the unity for that kind of job action left in the UAW. All the piss and vinegar, Marx reading firebrands are dead and buried, replaced by petty bureaucrats with legal fetishes. With predictible results.

\:\( ,
scott
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#3473069 - 02/11/09 10:53 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: scootergeek]
progressi Offline
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Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9133
I thought I had read that S.Korea had unfair auto worker wages,but it seems that the UAW was complaining about unfair trade practices.

 Quote:
Fourth, Congress and the Obama administration must make sure that our nations trade policies promote fair trade, not so-called free trade that fails to provide a level playing field and instead places our domestic automakers at a significant competitive disadvantage. In particular, prompt action needs to be taken to eliminate unfair currency manipulation by China and Japan. In addition, Congress and the Obama administration should insist that the U.S.-Korea free trade agreement must be renegotiated to require that Korea dismantle the non-tariff barriers that have kept its market closed to U.S.-built automotive products, before it is granted any further access to the U.S. market.
This is cited from a UAW.

That's good. Im sure dealer practices vary. I'll be looking forward to see if the resale value holds for these better than others. That's either a win for early adopters,or those that want a project vehicle.

Oh,and Scott-I also read that the S. Korean auto unions are striking against their mfgrs. due to this proposed fair trade agreement.

Im not one of those that's blaming the overpaid union workers. Why should I disparage someone from trying to earn a great wage? I think fat management is grossly overpaid-but that's a whole nother' barrel to dip into. To complete the off-topic rant,I really like how the fat cat politicians are going to bitch at the bankers and other elites for doing the same crap they do.

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#3473140 - 02/11/09 11:23 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: progressi]
scootergeek Offline
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Registered: 07/24/00
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 Originally Posted By: progressi
To complete the off-topic rant,I really like how the fat cat politicians are going to bitch at the bankers and other elites for doing the same crap they do.


It's all theater. That's why actors do so well in politics and nobody pays attention to Kucinich or Paul.

cheers,
scott
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#3479075 - 02/13/09 09:05 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: scootergeek]
Impulsive Offline
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Registered: 11/28/99
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Loc: Edmonton
The locla dealer had a V6 Manual on the lot (non-track). Looks good in person, though the 18" wheels were meh. The interior was a bit of a letdown. I was hoping it would a bit better in person. It's not bad, but not top notch if we are callin G37's competition.

I'll wait for a few more examples to come and then I'll take a drive.

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#3479387 - 02/14/09 01:08 AM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: scootergeek]
progressi Offline
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Registered: 06/01/01
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Speaking of new cars,Scott,how excited are you about the new Alfas?

And to stay on topic-Impulsive,arent the coupes supposed to be like a repop of the Nissan Saliva?

I wasnt going to add fuel to the fire,but since you brought it up,the Evo guys were saying the Hyundai had a pretty disappointing interior. \:\)

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#3479610 - 02/14/09 09:10 AM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: progressi]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
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weird... I *just* noticed the "turbo" and "380gt" badges on these... are they keeping that over here? anyone notice?
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#3479679 - 02/14/09 10:09 AM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: progressi]
scootergeek Offline
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Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46172
Loc: St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: progressi
Speaking of new cars,Scott,how excited are you about the new Alfas?


Not very. Pretty, but overweight and who knows when they'll be over here? Although part of Alfa's return is Fiat's return and the Abarth 500 esse esse looks pretty interesting as a Cooper S competitor.

cheers,
scott
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#3480124 - 02/14/09 03:01 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: Impulsive]
Noob4Life Offline
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I thought Hyundai had this aimed at the 370Z (in terms of performance, features, and price)?

I like Hyundai, but IMO they have a really big head to think that people are actually cross-shopping the Vera Cruz, Genesis Sedan and Genesis Coupe against the RX430's, LS460's and the G37. I wish they were more like Mazda, making great cars for the sake of making great cars without trying so hard to let everyone know who their target is. Whether or not Hyundai's approach is working, I don't know but I find it really tacky.

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#3480492 - 02/14/09 06:20 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: Noob4Life]
Impulsive Offline
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Registered: 11/28/99
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Loc: Edmonton
The target wouldn't be so bad if they lived up to it (and didn't look like they were copy-catting).

 Quote:
And to stay on topic-Impulsive,arent the coupes supposed to be like a repop of the Nissan Saliva?

I wasnt going to add fuel to the fire,but since you brought it up,the Evo guys were saying the Hyundai had a pretty disappointing interior.


Yeah, it's basically the new Sylvia - which is what I've been asking for forever. A sporty, well appointed, RWD coupe. The back seats even look reasonably useful.

The interior was just like the pics. I was hoping it would have the VW effect where the pics look shitty, but once you sit in it, the materials and neat touches really stand out. It's not bad, just a lot of seams. While the G37 has a nice interior, it's not amazing but it's still a good bit nicer than the Genesis.


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#3480610 - 02/14/09 07:36 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: Impulsive]
spoolinGTI Offline
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Registered: 10/30/99
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All I have to say is WOW!! This car (so far) looks like a REAL winner!
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#3480994 - 02/14/09 10:56 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: Impulsive]
progressi Offline
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Registered: 06/01/01
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I thought the same thing when I rented an Accent. When you get in,you think it's actually a nicely built car. But dont touch anything,its all hard plastic that's very hollow.

I got yelled at for using an Accent to gauge Hyundai quality,but Im telling you it was worse than late 80s Honda-anything after that-Civic quality was leaps better. Again-it just looks nice,but its pretty shabby.

Still-I think this car is the new 240,and therefore I dont think interior quality is much of the necessary package. I think it's got to just be handling,power and moddability to be a win. But there's still the fact that I think its about 300 lbs overweight. Really-the Evos are about the same,with 4 doors,lots more drivetrain tech,AWD,and giant rear seats to go with. I know the Evo's alot more,but maybe that's why the Genesis is so cheap?

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#3480996 - 02/14/09 10:59 PM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: Noob4Life]
progressi Offline
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Registered: 06/01/01
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 Originally Posted By: Noob4Life
I thought Hyundai had this aimed at the 370Z (in terms of performance, features, and price)?

I like Hyundai, but IMO they have a really big head to think that people are actually cross-shopping the Vera Cruz, Genesis Sedan and Genesis Coupe against the RX430's, LS460's and the G37. I wish they were more like Mazda, making great cars for the sake of making great cars without trying so hard to let everyone know who their target is. Whether or not Hyundai's approach is working, I don't know but I find it really tacky.
I agree. Worse than that-there's a commercial that directly implies that BMW and Mercedes are angry-foaming at the mouth over the Korean competition.

But from all the drives Ive seen-its a really nice car for the price,but has absolutely ZERO driving excitement.

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#3481186 - 02/15/09 02:24 AM Re: Genesis Coupe Looks FTW [Re: progressi]
Impulsive Offline
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Registered: 11/28/99
Posts: 74402
Loc: Edmonton
Yep. Most reviews say there is no sport in the Genesis sedan.

The Coupe is a bit heavy, but it's only about 100 pounds more than a 370Z and lightweight cars are a rarity now it seems. Nissan said they cut 200 pounds off the new 370Z and they had to add over 100lbs back just for crash standards. Still, 3400 is reasonable. I'm awaiting a few reviews (and maybe a drive of my own) to see if it's all specs, but really a boring understeering drive or if they really have created a budget 370Z. I've heard some rumors that the engine is underated at 306 hp, so we'll see.

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