So a supra just dominated...

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#1935290 - 10/10/07 02:24 AM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: ErikB]
Nealoc187 Nealoc187 <3 Post Master Supreme Registered: 05/07/01 Posts: 32535 Loc: Lisle, IL formerly Kalamazoo, ...	Originally Posted By: ErikB damn! Hey, what did that SVS viper run? (the stars and stripes) a guy I know (charles) tuned that car. he's a good friend of one of my best friends. the guys there at that shop are all awesome, the driver of that car (Ron Jr.) ran the dyno when I dyno'd there. he and his dad let us have the run of the place one saturday, there are some retarded cars being put together in there all the time but they made us promise not to give away any setups or take any pictures or video of any setups. it was pretty frickin cool. _________________________ 95 maxima 11.7 @ 123mph - stock 3.0L tuned by me on 93octane 12.9 @ 104mph - stock 3.5L w/ bolt ons
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#1944757 - 10/13/07 02:20 AM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: Krisiun]
homer homer Jr Member Registered: 03/24/03 Posts: 682	Very impressive - the Hennessey Viper in the R&T shootout did 220 in the mile (beating the Veyron as well) http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=5675
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#1945231 - 10/13/07 01:23 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: ]
Mr. Knowitall. Mr. Knowitall. banned Post Master Sr Registered: 06/25/07 Posts: 3410	Originally Posted By: 00Formula Originally Posted By: Euphoric thats retardo....even with all that spinning to get up to that speed. amazing! The spinning actually helps I think to a certian extent. I know it does at the dragstrip vs hooking and bogging, or just feeding in enough throttle to not spin. By spinning and still accelerating at a decent rate, read moderate slippage, your putting down more hp. That way your not bogging the engine, and will achieve a faster speed, but not a faster time to cover the same distance. You're a tool. He isn't spinning the tires to keep the motor in the powerband. he is trying furiously with his right foot to keep the turbo moderately spooled. That car doesn't make dick for power before the turbo spools, and if he could put down the traction limit it's faster than spinning. Period. If you had a spinning/burning out tire and I had one that was stationary I could create a stronger co-efficient of friction, and if we both put our tires on a plank I could pull it away from you. If I can apply more power, then I can accelerate faster. Race cars don't go skidding around corners for at least two reasons: 1 is scrubing speed, but the other is because there is more traction available, more force to keep your car on the road, when the tires are not slipping. Y`know the scrub scrub before the chirp chirp? Well the scrub scrub is the most you can get out of a tire, and when you go chirp chirp you're also going slower. _________________________ This website doesn't do me justice.
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#1945563 - 10/13/07 05:12 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: ]
kyden kyden Post Master Supreme Registered: 12/20/99 Posts: 15406 Loc: Providence, RI	you're missing the point. race car drivers are trying to beat a 'clock'. the point of this is to have the greatest "trap" at the end of the mile. anyone who's ever been to a dragstrip understands this. when you spin, you end up with a higher trap speed, but a shittier time. in this case, no one actually cares about the ET _________________________ <x> i had a weird dream <x> where i lived in an apartment complex <x> walked down the street, and kyden and a couple other dudes were living in an apartment and ran outside looking for the maintenance people <x> and something about taking a shit in a sealed toilet
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#1945971 - 10/13/07 08:27 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: ]
Professor Paki Professor Paki Duolingo Expert Post Master Supreme Registered: 01/20/04 Posts: 69505	Chuck you beat me to it. Also, I recall that optimum acceleration occurs with the tires spinning about 10% faster than if they had full traction?
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#1946627 - 10/14/07 03:42 AM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: Professor Paki]
Nealoc187 Nealoc187 <3 Post Master Supreme Registered: 05/07/01 Posts: 32535 Loc: Lisle, IL formerly Kalamazoo, ...	Unless someone can show me some mathematics to substantiate the claim, I will continue to refute the old wives tale that spinning your tires makes for faster trap speeds. In my experience, that has never been the case. The only time I've found it to hold true is in comparison to a bogging situation. Full traction acceleration > wheel spinning acceleration _________________________ 95 maxima 11.7 @ 123mph - stock 3.0L tuned by me on 93octane 12.9 @ 104mph - stock 3.5L w/ bolt ons
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#1947287 - 10/14/07 02:38 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: Nealoc187]
Mr. Knowitall. Mr. Knowitall. banned Post Master Sr Registered: 06/25/07 Posts: 3410	Slip angle in a turn is, to some degree(lol punny), about scrubbing speed you would otherwise brake off. There are too many complicated aspects involved in track racing vs. this idea of force applied and traction. But in the end the tire that has already lost traction (maybe 7* doesn't slip the tire?) can apply less force. This is ultra basic physics. Things require X to start sliding, and X-Y to keep sliding. The difference, or the Y value, exists. I think we're done? _________________________ This website doesn't do me justice.
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#1947305 - 10/14/07 02:44 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: Professor Paki]
Mr. Knowitall. Mr. Knowitall. banned Post Master Sr Registered: 06/25/07 Posts: 3410	Originally Posted By: pakisho Apparently Tommy (owner of the supra) ran the 228mph on the second day after switching to 18 inch wheels, which allowed him to hook in third. Experiencowned. Well, we have shitty anecdotal evidence supporting both sides, but Newtonian physics supporting only 1. I think you're wrong. _________________________ This website doesn't do me justice.
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#1947652 - 10/14/07 04:59 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: ]
00Formula 00Formula Unregistered	Every real world experience at the drag strip has shown me that slight tire slippage produces higher traps and higher ET's. Hooking will produce a lower ET and lower trap speed.
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#1947818 - 10/14/07 06:31 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: ]
Mr. Knowitall. Mr. Knowitall. banned Post Master Sr Registered: 06/25/07 Posts: 3410	Originally Posted By: 00Formula Every real world experience at the drag strip has shown me that slight tire slippage produces higher traps and higher ET's. Hooking will produce a lower ET and lower trap speed. Except for when this supra put on sticker tires and trapped higher. _________________________ This website doesn't do me justice.
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#1947836 - 10/14/07 06:36 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: Mr. Knowitall.]
Mr. Knowitall. Mr. Knowitall. banned Post Master Sr Registered: 06/25/07 Posts: 3410	It seems the 7* slip angle is to put a new load on the tire which improves traction. _________________________ This website doesn't do me justice.
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#1948081 - 10/14/07 07:51 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: Mr. Knowitall.]
00Formula 00Formula Unregistered	Originally Posted By: Mr. Knowitall. Except for when this supra put on sticker tires and trapped higher. Notice the term "slight slippage". Of course if you put 6" wide snow tires on a 1000rwhp car your not going to trap very high, due to extreme slippage. I'm sure he still had slippage even with the sticker tires, correct? Excessive slipping is just as bad as bogging the engine from too much grip if your worried about trap speed.
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#1948222 - 10/14/07 08:34 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: ]
BeeKiller BeeKiller Post Master Registered: 09/16/01 Posts: 2747 Loc: CA. USA	Heres the in car http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU8DxXhwdSI
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#1948652 - 10/14/07 10:32 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: BeeKiller]
Euphoricuck Euphoricuck Post Master Supreme Registered: 11/05/03 Posts: 92703 Loc: Canadistan	I wonder if he pedaled a bit more if it woudl help..? nothing like driving 200+ mph with one hand on the wheel _________________________
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#1948719 - 10/14/07 10:52 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: Euphoricuck]
BeeKiller BeeKiller Post Master Registered: 09/16/01 Posts: 2747 Loc: CA. USA	If the shits gonna go sour at 200+ I dont think it matters if you had 10 hands on the wheel.
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#1949954 - 10/15/07 12:50 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: homer]
John Titor John Titor Post Master Sr Registered: 10/20/03 Posts: 7714 Loc: Oklahoma City	Originally Posted By: homer Very impressive - the Hennessey Viper in the R&T shootout did 220 in the mile (beating the Veyron as well) http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=5675 that story was a good read. i remember it saying the viper could've kept going had it had more road (or runway) _________________________ The weasel crows at midnight.
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#1950933 - 10/15/07 05:42 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: ]
Impulsive Impulsive Post Master Supreme Registered: 11/28/99 Posts: 80013 Loc: Edmonton	I think basic frictional physics don't apply to the tire/pavement interface. We had a thread a couple years back and theoretically, the contact patch of the tire doesn't change frictional force, but we all know you hook better with bigger tires. Why? My guess is that tires, tire treads, asphalt are not theoretically ideal. They are not smooth and there is likely some additional frictional forces occuring beyond the normal force and coefficient. _________________________ 2016 Stingray Z51 3LT - Stock 2021 Model 3P - I/H/E
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#1958240 - 10/17/07 08:01 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: ]
BeeKiller BeeKiller Post Master Registered: 09/16/01 Posts: 2747 Loc: CA. USA	Originally Posted By: 98_1LE Originally Posted By: Mr. Knowitall. Originally Posted By: pakisho Apparently Tommy (owner of the supra) ran the 228mph on the second day after switching to 18 inch wheels, which allowed him to hook in third. Experiencowned. Well, we have shitty anecdotal evidence supporting both sides, but Newtonian physics supporting only 1. I think you're wrong. Somehow I missed this gold last time I read this thread. Technically you are 100% wrong (IMO). Without some slip, it is not possible to get a car moving. With an auto, the torque converter slips. In a stick car, it neither the tires nor the clutch slips, either something breaks or the motor stalls; 100% of the time. Whats Newton got to say about dat? Or... You do a wheelie. You are right, something has to give for a car to go from a stop to motion. Suspension setup has more to do with how well a car "hooks" than the tires do (to an extent). I have seen cars, similar horsepower, one with good suspension and crap radials, one with crap suspension and slicks, and had the car with the radial tires stay right at the door of the slicked up car.
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#1961994 - 10/18/07 11:24 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: ]
Mr. Knowitall. Mr. Knowitall. banned Post Master Sr Registered: 06/25/07 Posts: 3410	Originally Posted By: 98_1LE Originally Posted By: Mr. Knowitall. Originally Posted By: pakisho Apparently Tommy (owner of the supra) ran the 228mph on the second day after switching to 18 inch wheels, which allowed him to hook in third. Experiencowned. Well, we have shitty anecdotal evidence supporting both sides, but Newtonian physics supporting only 1. I think you're wrong. Somehow I missed this gold last time I read this thread. Technically you are 100% wrong (IMO). Without some slip, it is not possible to get a car moving. With an auto, the torque converter slips. In a stick car, it neither the tires nor the clutch slips, either something breaks or the motor stalls; 100% of the time. Whats Newton got to say about dat? ... ... ... Are you kidding me? We are discussing the amount of forward acceleration a tire can generate, and you run in here all retarded yelling, "YOU NEED TO SLIP THE CLUTCH TO GET THE CAR TO START ROLLING!!!" No shit dude; we are discussing the amount of acceleration the tire can generate when you're in gear driving. _________________________ This website doesn't do me justice.
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#1962765 - 10/19/07 10:10 AM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: Impulsive]
qksl2 qksl2 Post Master Sr Registered: 06/30/03 Posts: 3279 Loc: So-Cal	Originally Posted By: Impulsive I think basic frictional physics don't apply to the tire/pavement interface. We had a thread a couple years back and theoretically, the contact patch of the tire doesn't change frictional force, but we all know you hook better with bigger tires. Why? My guess is that tires, tire treads, asphalt are not theoretically ideal. They are not smooth and there is likely some additional frictional forces occuring beyond the normal force and coefficient. Most physics professors will suggest it is due to the superior distribution of heat of the larger tire. I will add that a larger tire will make up for the lack of the suspension's ability to control and dampen rapid suspension movements, by simply having more tire everywhere; more likely that some of it is hitting the ground. Its not a good way to go, but it is the case. Ian _________________________ FSR Motorsport Creations
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#1962843 - 10/19/07 10:39 AM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: qksl2]
Impulsive Impulsive Post Master Supreme Registered: 11/28/99 Posts: 80013 Loc: Edmonton	Heat or no heat, you get more traction with a larger tire. A physic professor is looking at is F=Nu (mornal force times a coefficient). I'm arguing that there are more forces at play than that, otherwise, pizza cutters would give good traction (even prior to any heat). _________________________ 2016 Stingray Z51 3LT - Stock 2021 Model 3P - I/H/E
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#2057817 - 11/21/07 11:24 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: Impulsive]
00Formula 00Formula Unregistered	Old thread, but I just wanted to point out the amount of slippage in the Supra that trapped 228mph vs this TT Ford GT that trapped 222 mph. Supra vid already posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU8DxXhwdSI TT Ford GT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnoT0vXVnsE For this effort I think the Supra had the superior launch, wheelspinrevlimiterbouncing. The GT bogged on the 222.2mph run, though he tried to launch like the supra and ended up in the dirt on the third try Edit: Count the shifts too Supra shifts 5 times, using all 6 gears Ford GT shifts 4 times using only 5 gears Edited by 00Formula (11/21/07 11:32 PM)
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#2058908 - 11/22/07 12:25 PM Re: So a supra just dominated... [Re: ]
Lost^ Lost^ Unregistered	that supra is badical
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