Cyclists that race - training

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#8313717 - 08/01/15 03:56 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby robbbby master electrician Post Master Supreme Registered: 01/23/02 Posts: 15428 Loc: Canada	I think I would have it in me to do 10 or even 12 hours solo, only real change i'd make is switching to a 32 tooth ring instead of 34. However I know I would never be able to do a tag team for a 24 hour race, the constant riding and stopping would kill me. Cooling down and letting your legs tighten up only to get back on the bike a couple hours later is absolutely killer. I found all the aches and pains I had came about 1.5-2 hours after I had stopped riding.
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#8314455 - 08/02/15 03:08 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 nato2377 Post Master Sr Registered: 07/09/07 Posts: 3464 Loc: Denver, CO	ill just take you on solo then $\:D$ friggin mechanical today...rode 1st lap in 5-6th then slid back to 9th. lost both bottles in 1.5 laps. then rear derailleur hanger busted off with 1.5mi to go. bah
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#8314835 - 08/03/15 07:10 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby robbbby master electrician Post Master Supreme Registered: 01/23/02 Posts: 15428 Loc: Canada	You seem to be having lots of problems losing water bottles, time to get some tighter cages? How did you bust the hanger, smash a rock?
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#8315816 - 08/03/15 04:06 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
stickaz_old stickaz_old Post Master Supreme Registered: 02/04/01 Posts: 56459 Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr	I finally have a batting avg now getting up hamilton [1/3]. notes from ride: having a decent lunch [vs skipping] is beneficial refilling water bottles when it's ~85* out is also... beneficial my first 2 attempts were on [2] bottles only. This time I was 3.5 bottles to the summit [refilled at grant park which is 1/3 of the way in]. 5 total by the end [vs 2, heh] also brought [2] power-bar things for another ~400 calories on the ride. That also helped. no potatoe shot but you can simultaneous see the waters of the south bay and of monterey bay [santa cruz area] from up there [I was able to, anyways] neat I was a little bit less of a pussy on the downhill but still the tight turns with all the rock-fall gravel/debris kinda have me worried. Also plastering one of the porsches passing on the wrong side of the road has me a bit subdued as well. per the wiki article there are precisely 365 turns on this route from the start of the 130 at alum rock rd. perhaps if I'm feeling particularly asperg-y next time I will try to verify this _________________________ Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8315894 - 08/03/15 04:57 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
The Mighty BellRacer The Mighty BellRacer Daps up men at the gym Post Master Supreme Registered: 05/03/00 Posts: 26608 Loc: DFW	congrats!
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#8316275 - 08/03/15 11:45 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
The Mighty BellRacer The Mighty BellRacer Daps up men at the gym Post Master Supreme Registered: 05/03/00 Posts: 26608 Loc: DFW	Originally Posted By: robbbby Thats a FTP test or functional threshold power test, it determines what the maximum power you can sustain over the course of 1 hour is. There are two tests done to find ftp, usually a 8 minute test which is 2x8min intervals and a 20 minute test, they are actually an hour long and this is what they look like https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/1270-20-Minute-Test https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/1271-8-Minute-Test The data is somehow interpolated to figure out what you would be able to sustain for one hour, so if you were able to do 270W for 20 minutes your actual FTP will probably be in the 250W range. I don't think your Joules/min vs. actual power output are of any relation, there is way too many factors to deciding how much power you can put out, vo2, lactate, aerobic vs anaerobic power, etc. So I analyzed my FTP 230W. If I go back to the zone definitions, I see that my theoretical 10, is 277 Watts, or 20.7MPH on the Kurt Kinetic. They define that as a sustainable effort from 30s - 3min This seems a little low to me, if I go back to my Revolver workout, I see that my average interval speed was ~21.5mph or 308Watts. When the workout started, I thought I could sustain 24mph or 398Watts (lol no way), but regressed to the 21.5mph pace. The last interval I got back up to 24 which was weird. Edit: I think I could have held 22-22.5mph across the whole thing. I think I might add 5% to my FTP and use that as the basis for continuing my training. Edited by BellRacer (08/03/15 11:46 PM)
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#8316351 - 08/04/15 05:55 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
robbbby robbbby master electrician Post Master Supreme Registered: 01/23/02 Posts: 15428 Loc: Canada	I personally don't think the revolver workout is a good workout to use to analyze ftp, that workout is an interval mash fest. How did you arrive at the 230W originally? Here are a bunch of good links from a quick google search for doing some calculations based on the 20 or 8 minute test. https://www.google.com/search?q=calculat...+minute+workout
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#8316515 - 08/04/15 10:31 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
The Mighty BellRacer The Mighty BellRacer Daps up men at the gym Post Master Supreme Registered: 05/03/00 Posts: 26608 Loc: DFW	230W was 95% of my 20 minute "maximum effort" interval. they tell you to leave nothing in the tank at the end of the test but i have a really hard time doing that. I was gassed, sure, but I think I could have gone another 2-3 minutes before I cracked. With this, and the revolver workout, I think my number is a little higher than 230, maybe 240? This would have added about 0.2mph to my FTP test which seems possible.
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#8317094 - 08/04/15 04:11 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
robbbby robbbby master electrician Post Master Supreme Registered: 01/23/02 Posts: 15428 Loc: Canada	Only one way to find out, do a one hour ride and hold nothing back!
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#8317553 - 08/04/15 10:18 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
The Mighty BellRacer The Mighty BellRacer Daps up men at the gym Post Master Supreme Registered: 05/03/00 Posts: 26608 Loc: DFW	So hard to do that. I don't know how to tell myself how hard to work right now so that I'll be completely spent an hour from now. Even 20 mins is tough for me. I might try the FTP test again and try to squeeze another 25w out and see if can hold it.
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#8317716 - 08/05/15 05:55 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
robbbby robbbby master electrician Post Master Supreme Registered: 01/23/02 Posts: 15428 Loc: Canada	I personally wouldn't bother and not worry what it may or may not be. Keep doing what you're doing and revisit the 20 minute test mid to end of september and use it to gauge how much you have improved over the last month and a half
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#8318660 - 08/05/15 04:41 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
The Mighty BellRacer The Mighty BellRacer Daps up men at the gym Post Master Supreme Registered: 05/03/00 Posts: 26608 Loc: DFW	so what's should my approach be on this test to get an accurate number? i mean, should i set a target and see if i can hit it? or should i just go by feel and likely come up short?
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#8318855 - 08/05/15 07:41 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
robbbby robbbby master electrician Post Master Supreme Registered: 01/23/02 Posts: 15428 Loc: Canada	Just by riding daily and doing the different trainer workouts you should be able to 'feel' what kind of power you can sustain for 20 minutes without a significant power decrease before the 20 minutes are up or ending with gas still left in the tank. With that said, it's never going to be perfect, it's one of those things you have to do often so you can learn your limits. Heart rate is always a good indicator of where you should be, as are your old workouts. Next time you do the 20 minute FTP test take a look at some of your workouts that have intervals of a few minutes, since you do sufferfest rides, "a very dark place" looks like a good place to start. 4x4 minute intervals with 3 minutes rest between, take your power average for those 4 intervals and knock off 10%-15% and see if you can sustain that for 20. If you want real accuracy you're going to have to do it often to get a better idea of what kind of speed, HR and cadence you are capable of. It's nice to know your number so you can see your improvements but in the end it really isn't important. Also watt/kg is the real important number you want to know anyways. If you weigh 300lbs and have an FTP of 230W you aren't doing too well, if you can do 230W and only weigh 130lbs. you're going to fly on a bike.
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#8319059 - 08/05/15 10:44 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
The Mighty BellRacer The Mighty BellRacer Daps up men at the gym Post Master Supreme Registered: 05/03/00 Posts: 26608 Loc: DFW	I wish I had a true power meter for the road for this. Where I live, 20 uninterrupted minutes of riding is tough to find. Yeah, it sucks. I can go out I to the country but thats a minimum 4 hour commitment for a 1.5hr ride. My best chance to do it near me is to ride into a headwind (which is easy to find in august in north Texas lolz). This time of year, I just watch my heart rate continue to climb while I seemingly go nowhere. if I has power, that'd be a great, practical, FTP test.
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#8320237 - 08/06/15 02:55 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
stickaz_old stickaz_old Post Master Supreme Registered: 02/04/01 Posts: 56459 Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr	nice discussion on power/training guys $\:D$ I still havent picked up a power meter or a trainer haha *I have no idea what I'm doing _________________________ Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8321639 - 08/07/15 11:18 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
The Mighty BellRacer The Mighty BellRacer Daps up men at the gym Post Master Supreme Registered: 05/03/00 Posts: 26608 Loc: DFW	power's what it's all about br0ham! i did "half is easy" last night. it's another interval workout, 20 x 15sec sprints with 15 second breaks in between, 2 sets (plus some warmup work) and of course they mix it up on you. definitely not as hard as revolver, but your heart rate stays up the whole time. i've noticed that my heart rate just completely falls off the table now. they give you a 4 minute break in between sets where you're supposed to lightly spin to stay loose...and my heart rate dropped from mid 160s to <100 with 1 min to go during the break. i was a little worried that i cooled off to much and wouldn't be able to work as hard in the second set but it was ok. just to e-brag some more about my fitness improvements, i can now actually work at 170s HR, speed up, slow down, and have control. before i started this, i could get up to the 170s but it was oogly once i was there.
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#8321677 - 08/07/15 11:49 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
stickaz_old stickaz_old Post Master Supreme Registered: 02/04/01 Posts: 56459 Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr	Awesome, my hardest efforts I'm like captain 140s-150s HR, I have much to learn about pushing myself in the midrange (something not a sprint and something say less than 1.5 hrs) I also have a max HR of only like 177 so then there's that lol, I'm probably about right. I hold around low 150s avg in a half marathon for instance. But that's because I have the pacing about right in a half marathon or oly tri _________________________ Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8323696 - 08/09/15 08:29 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
nato2377 nato2377 Post Master Sr Registered: 07/09/07 Posts: 3464 Loc: Denver, CO	tour of utah crash. OW. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRM3bFXlyNk
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#8323701 - 08/09/15 08:38 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
The Mighty BellRacer The Mighty BellRacer Daps up men at the gym Post Master Supreme Registered: 05/03/00 Posts: 26608 Loc: DFW	Did that dude live? Damn, he did. No spinal injuries and likely won't require surgery. Crazy. Edited by BellRacer (08/09/15 08:41 PM)
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#8331824 - 08/17/15 09:00 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
robbbby robbbby master electrician Post Master Supreme Registered: 01/23/02 Posts: 15428 Loc: Canada	Shitty news http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/08/news/rider-dies-at-leadville-trail-100-mtb-race_381559
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#8371628 - 09/19/15 07:44 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 nato2377 Post Master Sr Registered: 07/09/07 Posts: 3464 Loc: Denver, CO	https://www.strava.com/activities/395826022 203.7 miles, 13,800ft climb, 16.7mph avg
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#8371839 - 09/20/15 08:11 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
civic00sedan civic00sedan Sr Member Registered: 03/25/02 Posts: 1169 Loc: NY	Originally Posted By: nato2377 https://www.strava.com/activities/395826022 203.7 miles, 13,800ft climb, 16.7mph avg Dang bro - that's some hours - respect
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#8373414 - 09/21/15 05:01 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: civic00sedan]
nato2377 nato2377 Post Master Sr Registered: 07/09/07 Posts: 3464 Loc: Denver, CO	Originally Posted By: civic00sedan Originally Posted By: nato2377 https://www.strava.com/activities/395826022 203.7 miles, 13,800ft climb, 16.7mph avg Dang bro - that's some hours - respect thanks! It was a pretty awesome day. My legs felt on point all day. had a 17.6 avg through 175 but lost it towing my buddy home the last 40. dont need to do that again anytime soon lol
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#8374692 - 09/22/15 06:06 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
stickaz_old stickaz_old Post Master Supreme Registered: 02/04/01 Posts: 56459 Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr	legit double century heh _________________________ Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8409644 - 10/21/15 12:35 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
stickaz_old stickaz_old Post Master Supreme Registered: 02/04/01 Posts: 56459 Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr	update: sitting at 135x miles YTD [lol] making a push here to clear 2000/2100 or so for the year by stepping up bike commuting $\:D$ I promise I will do a san jose--san francisco ride hopefully via tunitas creek/beach and possibly a century to sneak myself over the limit with a couple days off. Also maybe a Diablo summit. going to need all those to clear 2100 YTD lol $\:D$ still need to get a trainer haha *working on my hip flexibility and I seem to be fitting my TT bike a little better. Maybe I can remove a few of the stem spacers before my next race _________________________ Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8411124 - 10/22/15 11:47 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta dirtyS13drifta Unregistered	My goal is to log more miles than stickaz(on strava, because otherwise it doesn't count). Oh, and finally considering doing "real" training.
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#8465867 - 12/04/15 06:43 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: ]
nato2377 nato2377 Post Master Sr Registered: 07/09/07 Posts: 3464 Loc: Denver, CO	so took all of november off, started Dec 1 w/ my coach and training with power. did an FTP test and a 5 min power test to start and have been doing endurance ride stuff for now. pretty pleased with power numbers after a month off and no real structured training before this. FTP test i did 320watts for 20min with avg hr of 192 and max of 200, so my FTP is 305..and 5 min test i did 381 watts...hitting winter hard to make Bonelli XC and Sea Otter Classic in CA in April Edited by nato2377 (12/04/15 06:45 PM)
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#8465871 - 12/04/15 06:46 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 nato2377 Post Master Sr Registered: 07/09/07 Posts: 3464 Loc: Denver, CO	Originally Posted By: robbbby You seem to be having lots of problems losing water bottles, time to get some tighter cages? figured out 1. my cage was broke and 2. was using the wrong kind of bottle
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#8465876 - 12/04/15 06:49 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
nato2377 nato2377 Post Master Sr Registered: 07/09/07 Posts: 3464 Loc: Denver, CO	Originally Posted By: BellRacer so what's should my approach be on this test to get an accurate number? i mean, should i set a target and see if i can hit it? or should i just go by feel and likely come up short? i dont know how you did the whole test, but this is how you do it. 15 min warm up 5min tempo pace (watts you think can hold for an hour) 4x1min at watts you think you can do for 20 min, 3 min rest between sets 5 min easy spin 20 min test 10-15min cool down
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#8478290 - 12/15/15 07:10 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 nato2377 Post Master Sr Registered: 07/09/07 Posts: 3464 Loc: Denver, CO	awesome weather last week in PA 60 some degrees. 202 outdoor miles. 22hrs of riding last 2 weeks
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#8480098 - 12/16/15 09:42 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
schtickaz.ai schtickaz.ai Post Master Supreme Registered: 01/23/12 Posts: 35955 Loc: State, Country, etc.	I have no idea what this means but I tried to simulate my only tri bike leg (hr was a little light, avgd 130), I arbitrarily picked 250 or so to hold it at as I'm kinda sick and this was about 1-hr before my swim practice I didn't want to totally blitz myself Got a 244 FTP rating heh, wonder how much higher I can get it allowing my HR to climb similar to my 5k run PR level (160 avg or so) *mops up pile of sweat _________________________ general douchebaggery
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#8482333 - 12/18/15 12:50 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: schtickaz.ai]
schtickaz.ai schtickaz.ai Post Master Supreme Registered: 01/23/12 Posts: 35955 Loc: State, Country, etc.	hit 762w last night in a 5s sprint haha. geared up and was spinning ~110 rpm also: what level of effort do you think you're at typically when one starts to drool uncontrollably? is that like at least 90% you think or? not sure it's directly related to HR as I was only hitting ~140 or so so had plenty of room---but my legs were en fuego and I was gassed something fierce.. I hit that towards the end of a ~5 minute effort where weird things started dripping all over my bike _________________________ general douchebaggery
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#8482401 - 12/18/15 01:30 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: schtickaz.ai]
nato2377 nato2377 Post Master Sr Registered: 07/09/07 Posts: 3464 Loc: Denver, CO	i dont start to drool until im flat out 100% 195hr or so
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#8482841 - 12/18/15 08:37 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
nato2377 nato2377 Post Master Sr Registered: 07/09/07 Posts: 3464 Loc: Denver, CO	whatever happened to gamby?
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#8483401 - 12/19/15 08:00 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
schtickaz.ai schtickaz.ai Post Master Supreme Registered: 01/23/12 Posts: 35955 Loc: State, Country, etc.	Self-imposed time-out I guess? TIL: my seat has been too low and forget the power increase I noticed on zwift by raising it but today's did a ~50 miler outside and with the same raised position I'm way faster. But more importantly my knee doesn't hurt after the ride heh. Anyways only 1-week with a trainer and I was able to increase my effective power by like 20 watts just by raising the seat lol And I learned more about my threshold power/capability/effort level And I learned not to fear grabbing a bigger gear as I actually have more power than I thought. No need to spin as much if that makes any sense. Today on my ride I was riding similar to how I was getting the best power numbers on zwift and I got a ton of PRs on one of my common routes on my road bike on my commuter wheels (I've ridden the course on my TT bike and zipps a couple times) So placebo effect maybe, but I'm feeling faster haha--couple tiny things but they really add up. Can't understate the non-knee pain thing either. Man I'm retarded but whatever, glad I fixed it. I had a huge fuckin headwind on the way out but I'm a little more flexible now so aerobars on my road bike I was able to make good power I think--I'm still uncomfortable on the aero bars on my cervelo _________________________ general douchebaggery
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