#5815912 - 09/21/11 10:20 PM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: Kick to ze liver]
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THE_CHIEF914
Newbie
Registered: 09/20/11
Posts: 6
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F8wggsVi74&feature=youtu.be
good run
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#5816084 - 09/21/11 11:55 PM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: cacasesi]
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Kick to ze liver
Poster
Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 339
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In the first race, it looks like the GTI reeled in, passed, and then put distance on the Civic and would have continued to do so as speeds increased. In the second run, the GTI was losing ground even before the Civic finished honking it off. To me, it looks like the GTI traps a mph or two higher than the Civic, but he might be starting a gear too low for the speeds you're starting from. He shouldn't be losing ground instantly to the Civic. Either way, fun racing between the two cars.
From what I was told the Civic was already off the throttle when the GTI passed, although it was creeping. The first run I was also told was slighting uphill, where as the second run where it didn't look to be close at all, was downhill. I'll let NVMYMPGZ clarify but that's what I was told and also looks can be deceiving when starting, really depends where the GOPRO is mounted. Either way that puts the theory of any modern day turbo car with a tune "walking" this Civic.
_________________________
05 Type S - I/RH/E/ASP RRC/DC 2.2s/E85/KPRO - 250whp/165wtq Xenocron Tuned
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#5816128 - 09/22/11 12:40 AM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: Kick to ze liver]
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cliff st-clair
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
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why does the rsx walk both cars so easily in the first race and then falls behind in the second race?
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03' 350z 04' Mazda 3 s
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#5816274 - 09/22/11 07:32 AM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: cliff st-clair]
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NVMYMPGZ
Sr Member
Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1058
Loc: White Plains, NY
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Most questions were answered in captions with the original edit but i lost the changes. First time video editor here. First run gti was creeping. Maybe due to uphill road incline? Second race clearly shows gti loosing ground second and third and unable to gain threw fourth. I lifted mid fifth both runs, hard to hear with all the wind noise.
As for the RSX. The chief told me he started in 3rd on the second run.
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#5817387 - 09/22/11 02:54 PM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: NVMYMPGZ]
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THE_CHIEF914
Newbie
Registered: 09/20/11
Posts: 6
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why does the rsx walk both cars so easily in the first race and then falls behind in the second race?
As for the RSX. The chief told me he started in 3rd on the second run.
That's what happened. The cars were both very close from my POV and it was a good run
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#5817602 - 09/22/11 04:02 PM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: THE_CHIEF914]
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g96nt
Jr Poster
Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 132
Loc: Annapolis MD
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That's it.. I'm selling the LoLvo for an RSX. I will own the highways!
_________________________
2000 Saab 9-5 wagon
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#5821293 - 09/24/11 04:47 PM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: Kick to ze liver]
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progressi
Post Master Sr
Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9134
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Anyway, he's going to Etown on Wednesday so we can keep an eye on what he's going to run, should be a nice night. I'm guessing around 14.1-14.2@97-98mph on street tires. To me this is more like a 185whp hatch. My cousin raced a guy with a built NA RSX that made 230 some to the ground. Actually I raced him first in my stock Evo from a roll (05 SSL) and beat him 3 for 3.
My cousin raced him with an off the showroom floor 07 Eclipse 6 speed with an intake as it's sole mod. Beat the RSX 2 out of 3.
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#5821319 - 09/24/11 05:06 PM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: ]
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progressi
Post Master Sr
Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9134
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o_O
Wait a minute...Why would you want shift when the result is going to be not only less HP, but less torque multiplication (higher gear) as well??
If revving higher nets you more power, you do it, lol. THAT's the "fatter part of the power band". It doesn't matter if you're "barely making more power" -- hell, you want to hold the gear with the better torque multiplier until some point PAST peak power, but NEVER before, lol. You only shift when the power dies off by more than the torque multiplier is gaining you, which is going to be different for different cars depending on how rapidly power dies off. Apparently I'm explaining it wrong, but torque fell off substantially above 8500 RPM, but you could eek out an extra 1-2 whp by winding it out to 9000+ RPM. I think the highest we ever went was 9400 on the mustang dyno (170 whp on that dyno if I remember right, but it's been awhile) and there was no reason to go that high. Instead, shifting at 8600 or so might have been 1-2 whp less than peak, but because of the short gearing in that trans, it was better for me to shift which landed me at 6K which was closer to peak torque than if I had held out the shift to 9400, even though I technically made a smidge more power at 9400. I fully realize you don't want to sacrifice power by shifting early but I guess I wasn't fully explaining how high we tried to go. Tod I know what you're trying to say, but the numbers in your example don't make sense. If torque was dropping off by enough to warrant a gear shift, HP would also be falling, not climbing -- it's not mathematically possible, otherwise. The question is...how quickly does torque have to be dropping to warrant a shift? To answer that you need to consider the gear ratios -- looking at the torque curve alone won't tell you anything. I just looked up the gear ratios for a b18c5 dc2. You lose 30% of your torque multiplication from the transmission when you shift from 2nd to 3rd: 30.7% = (2.105 second gear minus 1.458 third gear)/2.105 second gear Unless the torque output of the engine has dropped off by MORE than 30.7% at any given rpm, you're better off staying in second until it does. It would be mathematically impossible for HP to be increasing if torque was dropping off by >30.7%. That's not true, this is the second B18c5 dyno result from google I got. http://www.team-integra.net/images/BAEC1...sc/SAE200hp.jpg
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#5821323 - 09/24/11 05:12 PM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: cliff st-clair]
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progressi
Post Master Sr
Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9134
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http://youtu.be/0dyApIVhXVk Full street trim, 2460lbs with my 250 in the drivers seat 80% humidity. 20mph headwind LOL I was RIGHT on the money. 14.2@97mph. LOL Proof the old man still knows his Hondas, contrary to popular belief... Thanks for posting that. Yep!
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#5821978 - 09/24/11 11:54 PM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: progressi]
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Kick to ze liver
Poster
Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 339
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Anyway, he's going to Etown on Wednesday so we can keep an eye on what he's going to run, should be a nice night. I'm guessing around 14.1-14.2@97-98mph on street tires. To me this is more like a 185whp hatch. My cousin raced a guy with a built NA RSX that made 230 some to the ground. Actually I raced him first in my stock Evo from a roll (05 SSL) and beat him 3 for 3. My cousin raced him with an off the showroom floor 07 Eclipse 6 speed with an intake as it's sole mod. Beat the RSX 2 out of 3.
What is built? I made those numbers with simple bolt ons/tune and walk away from stock Evo's on the highway.
_________________________
05 Type S - I/RH/E/ASP RRC/DC 2.2s/E85/KPRO - 250whp/165wtq Xenocron Tuned
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#5822911 - 09/25/11 06:10 PM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: ]
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Kick to ze liver
Poster
Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 339
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That said, I still doubt the 230whp figure. Sorry....I just think it's a happy dyno! In the end, it doesn't matter. It's impossible to compare HP figures nowadays...one rsx will run low 13's with 180whp, another will run low 14's with 230whp.
Exactly, I can careless about the numbers...I've run enough cars to know where my car stands. I will say this though, a guy on the boards in NJ with the same exact mods as me put down 225whp on a dynojet...others have made similar numbers, it really depends on your choice of bolt ons.
_________________________
05 Type S - I/RH/E/ASP RRC/DC 2.2s/E85/KPRO - 250whp/165wtq Xenocron Tuned
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#6589036 - 09/15/12 06:09 PM
Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
[Re: cliff st-clair]
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NVMYMPGZ
Sr Member
Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1058
Loc: White Plains, NY
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Didnt know B18c5s could do 200+ whp with bolt ons.Impressive. that is not very realistic, probably a high reading dyno. They dyno like 162-165 bone stock. To make 200whp you'd think it would take more than tuning and breathing mods. As awesome as the dc2 itr was, it used to get spanked against rsx's with hondata and race headers. I'd seen it countless times. The outcome in the vid is not far fetched at all. Here's a direct quote from the tuner about the dyno used. "In fact most chassis dynos measure flywheel hp and calculate wheel...how come you can do a pull in 3rd gear or 4th gear and basically they measure the same This is "comparison mode" which is Dyno Dynamics method of equating to Dynojet numbers...it says flywheel on the graphs (just like dynapack) but every car I have had report to me about going on a local Dynojet the numbers have been within 1-2% as far as I have been told" and here is the thread. http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2974988 How come you didnt quote this: "It's an excellent tune and I'm sure the car works great but do people really think for a second that it's putting down an actual 208.6 whp to the ground?" Anyway, he's going to Etown on Wednesday so we can keep an eye on what he's going to run, should be a nice night. I'm guessing around 14.1-14.2@97-98mph on street tires. To me this is more like a 185whp hatch.
Finally made it back to the track in the EG. 205 dz101 street tires. Best pass of the day all motor was 13.5@102.5mph. Best pass on spray 13.0@108.6
Same setup Cliff ran 14.5@97 with from his rocking chair...
http://youtu.be/yKvYYADBVz0
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