#1745984 - 08/13/07 02:36 AM
More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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So a few months ago, i ordered the ITBs for the Miata. Told myself "Self, you can't install these until the Neon's done." Well, through a strange convoluted series of events, I found myself not only with a weekend that I couldn't get buried on the Neon, but also didn't have much going on.
So I decided to do the ITBs, Neon be damned. Figured it'd be a one day project, and I was close. Pulled the manifold last night, did the install of the unit and the piggyback ECU today. Need to sync them tomorrow night, but it fired up under it's own power a few times today.
Before the manifold, the car dynoed at 132WHP. I'm really curious to see what it pulls now once I get the wideband hooked up tomorrow night and get it tuned, and out to the dyno. I know i really need to tidy/tuck my wiring, haven't gotten there yet.
Only one pic that's decent, I threw a vid on youtube but it sucks so I won't link it here. I'm psyched. This sounds pissed. I can't wait to hear them in anger! It's been probably three years of waiting, planning, thinking, and finally action! Next up, compression bump and cams.
Before: (RB intake, RB header, RB exhaust, "Exhintake" cam, no cat)
After: (no more MAF, no more RB intake, add Fuji ITB, neglect to clean up wiring.)
It's still a spaghetti incident, but that doesn't stop me being unreasonably proud.
_________________________
-Matt '95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf "Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake "Ha... yeah if neon ownership teaches you one thing it's how to turn lemons into Country Time." -Spotch "If the market demand for snarky comments is below my current supply of sassy wit I can only assume the market will adjust itself accordingly. Any minute now. Dick." -2000SiRacer
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#1746616 - 08/13/07 11:44 AM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: SyFastfedful]
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CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
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exhintake?
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Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
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#1746732 - 08/13/07 12:19 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: SyFastfedful]
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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Rich almost nailed it. I'm running 2 exhaust cams. I cut the cam angle drive off the back of the cam, and redrilled the gear 197 degrees out of whack and dropped it in.
Gave me about 25 extra degrees of duration, and an unspecified amount more lift (I can't seem to find good lift numbers online). I got about an extra 1k RPM of usable power out of it for the princely sum of 15.00 for an extra cam gear.
Edited by ACR Racer (08/13/07 12:19 PM)
_________________________
-Matt '95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf "Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake "Ha... yeah if neon ownership teaches you one thing it's how to turn lemons into Country Time." -Spotch "If the market demand for snarky comments is below my current supply of sassy wit I can only assume the market will adjust itself accordingly. Any minute now. Dick." -2000SiRacer
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#1746966 - 08/13/07 12:59 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: Damnit, Laverty]
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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That sounds like fun! If I were to ever buy a Miata (lol ) I'd probably throw ITB's on it.
That is if I could overcome my automotive ADD for more than 5 minutes...
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#1747709 - 08/13/07 03:54 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: beerslurpy]
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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I'll go COP once I go MS. I can't figure out how to keep my tach with COP and stock ECU since 94/95 have the tach driver in the coil and since the plan is standalone sooner rather than later, I'd rather not reinvent the wheel just to get rid of it.
As for not understanding ITBs, believe it or not, i'm with you. I just wanted something fun and unique and really do NOT want a 200+HP Miata. That's called an S2000, and I already have one. I love the sound and throttle response, and I learned a long time ago that a car doesn't have to be fast to be fun. I admit, a lot of it is audio rice, and some of it is that i like shiny bits. The other real driving motivation is that I already have one turbo project car, I don't need two bi-polar pains in my ass.
I'm only going to the stock rev limit right now. In the near-to-middle term, the HLAs are gonna get fired like they were stealin' from the company. I just don't want to buy lifters w/o deciding what head i'm going to end up with long-term. I've been close to pulling the trigger on a 99 head for a while, and that'd get rid of my HLAs in and of itself. The Toda buckets have also been calling my name, but why buy them if i'd just change heads?
Edited by ACR Racer (08/13/07 03:55 PM)
_________________________
-Matt '95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf "Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake "Ha... yeah if neon ownership teaches you one thing it's how to turn lemons into Country Time." -Spotch "If the market demand for snarky comments is below my current supply of sassy wit I can only assume the market will adjust itself accordingly. Any minute now. Dick." -2000SiRacer
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#1747721 - 08/13/07 03:57 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: Damnit, Laverty]
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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Oh! i see where your high RPM comment came from. I'm not going higher than the stock revlimiter, but instead of the power falling off at 6ish like stock, it holds strong to 7k now.
_________________________
-Matt '95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf "Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake "Ha... yeah if neon ownership teaches you one thing it's how to turn lemons into Country Time." -Spotch "If the market demand for snarky comments is below my current supply of sassy wit I can only assume the market will adjust itself accordingly. Any minute now. Dick." -2000SiRacer
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#1748040 - 08/13/07 05:19 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: Damnit, Laverty]
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beerslurpy
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 15480
Loc: Spring Hill, FL
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The COPs have a tach wire. You just wire them together and feed them into the tach output. It's been done multiple times on miataturbo.net.
I'm currently waiting on my COPs and harnesses so I can start the car again. I finished my water pump swap and coolant reroute mods a few weeks ago. It turns out the new factory one had a leaking seal so that I redid the gaskets 3 times over the past year for basically no reason. I need to bring it up to boiling point to be sure, but I think I have tackled the problem for now. Also, if you are looking for a cheap race radiator, CSF Imports makes a GIGANTIC 57mm one for 300 bucks. I think radiatorexpress.com has them. It is really well put together from what I can tell- pressure formed Al end tanks and machine welds. They are a mostly OEM company that decided to make them for racers as well.
The 99 head gets rid of the intake HLAs. Also, the 99 springs are only good for about 7500 rpms realistically. Markp can tell you the details but you basically have to swap out the bits between the valve and the cam. Also don't forget that the stock oil pump doesn't really like > 7500 rpms usage. There have been quite a few high power guys that have blown their engines by shattering the cast oil pump gears. I'm sure someone makes a forged unit, I just can't remember who.
I'll go for moar boost before I go for more RPM. Right now my rev limit is 8000-something but I dont go beyond 7500. I just like to keep the fuel/ign/boost cut faggotry away from my powerband. I figure if racers from the 60s could drive without electro-nanny rev limiters, I can too. To be honest, the stock ignition isn't really cutting it beyond 7000 rpm. The COP should hopefully fix that. Guys have been running stock plug gap (50 percent more than normal) on 12-15 psi of boost. Hell, one guy with a half destroyed spark plug with a no electrode was getting it to fire cleanly. It looks like the stock miata dwell is a bit higher than toyota's but not high enough to overheat them.
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#1748086 - 08/13/07 05:30 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: Nurburgring]
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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Yeah, I keep hearing that from people! I don't get it either, but my roommate dynoed his truck on the same dyno the same day and his wasn't equally optimistic, so I dunno what's up. Hell, his was a hopes-and-dreams crusher, as a matter of fact. Heh.
The cam mod's a trip, but it really woke the car up. Definately worth the little bit of effort it took, and the $$/hp ratio can't be beat.
Racing? I wish! I do the occasional HPDE in it, but I haven't had time or money to take it out at all this year. Last run it got was Eddie driving it late last year at PIR, i think that was before the Exhintake, too. I'd like to get out for at least one lapping day this year, but the stars don't seem to be lining up right for that to happen.
Edited by ACR Racer (08/13/07 05:34 PM)
_________________________
-Matt '95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf "Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake "Ha... yeah if neon ownership teaches you one thing it's how to turn lemons into Country Time." -Spotch "If the market demand for snarky comments is below my current supply of sassy wit I can only assume the market will adjust itself accordingly. Any minute now. Dick." -2000SiRacer
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#1748144 - 08/13/07 05:44 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: beerslurpy]
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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The COPs have a tach wire. You just wire them together and feed them into the tach output. It's been done multiple times on miataturbo.net.
Also, if you are looking for a cheap race radiator, CSF Imports makes a GIGANTIC 57mm one for 300 bucks.
The 99 head gets rid of the intake HLAs. Also, the 99 springs are only good for about 7500 rpms realistically.
I'm sure someone makes a forged unit, I just can't remember who.
Nice info on the COP, maybe i'll accelerate that time table! Don't need a radiator, I've already got a Ron Davis one in the car after I popped my endtanks last year at Thunderhill. That cost me a headgasket, a head and both cams. (ouch!)
Good to know on the HLA front; I've always thought it replaced them ALL. Looks like the Toda shim/bucket is in my future. I figured the springs would be good for more than 75, but i can't say as I'm shocked.
And FYI: MiataRoadster.com manufactures/distributes the billet OP gears.
_________________________
-Matt '95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf "Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake "Ha... yeah if neon ownership teaches you one thing it's how to turn lemons into Country Time." -Spotch "If the market demand for snarky comments is below my current supply of sassy wit I can only assume the market will adjust itself accordingly. Any minute now. Dick." -2000SiRacer
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#1748274 - 08/13/07 06:24 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: ]
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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well if you ever came back to the Northwest, you could drive it! :P
_________________________
-Matt '95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf "Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake "Ha... yeah if neon ownership teaches you one thing it's how to turn lemons into Country Time." -Spotch "If the market demand for snarky comments is below my current supply of sassy wit I can only assume the market will adjust itself accordingly. Any minute now. Dick." -2000SiRacer
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#1748480 - 08/13/07 07:14 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: Scargoes]
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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Can i do it after I dyno? I'd like to do 2 dynos on the same one back-to-back for better comparitive sake... but i'm more than happy to deliver a nut-tap for you.
Definately man, call anytime.
_________________________
-Matt '95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf "Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake "Ha... yeah if neon ownership teaches you one thing it's how to turn lemons into Country Time." -Spotch "If the market demand for snarky comments is below my current supply of sassy wit I can only assume the market will adjust itself accordingly. Any minute now. Dick." -2000SiRacer
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#1748664 - 08/13/07 08:32 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: Damnit, Laverty]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25877
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Do you know if they're doing another S2K get together this fall? Last year's was a good time. I'll be getting some fresh tires in the next few weeks (spectacular sidewall blowout on the way home from BC last night) so I'll need to break them in.
Oh yeah, and I want a ride when you're done tuning.
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#1748965 - 08/13/07 10:42 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: Damnit, Laverty]
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Nurburgring
Major Member
Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1382
Loc: Santiago, Chile
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Racing? I wish! I do the occasional HPDE in it, but I haven't had time or money to take it out at all this year. Last run it got was Eddie driving it late last year at PIR, i think that was before the Exhintake, too. I'd like to get out for at least one lapping day this year, but the stars don't seem to be lining up right for that to happen.
Damn, well, at least it will be well sorted when you get it on the track... And for god´s sake don´t let Eddie drive it, that guy is way too insane lol.
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911 3.2 Targa / S2000 / AE86 x 2 / Aprilia RSV1000R
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#1749551 - 08/14/07 02:19 AM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: Nurburgring]
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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Heh, he's nuts, but in a good way. Not that I ever think he'd hurt the car, but even if he somehow did, it's a throwaway shell, i can always reskin the car.
I wish i had his driving skills. He's just got the knack.
So tonight I spent the evening fixing my injector routing, cleaning up my wires, and syncing the bodies. Haven't gotten to drive it, and it's still pig rich, but at least it looks better in the engine bay now. Really needs a bath though.
Pic whoring follows:
_________________________
-Matt '95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf "Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake "Ha... yeah if neon ownership teaches you one thing it's how to turn lemons into Country Time." -Spotch "If the market demand for snarky comments is below my current supply of sassy wit I can only assume the market will adjust itself accordingly. Any minute now. Dick." -2000SiRacer
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#1750448 - 08/14/07 11:52 AM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: Damnit, Laverty]
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SyFastfedful
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 5583
Loc: Portland, OR, USA
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Heh, he's nuts, but in a good way. Not that I ever think he'd hurt the car, but even if he somehow did, it's a throwaway shell, i can always reskin the car. I wish i had his driving skills. He's just got the knack. So tonight I spent the evening fixing my injector routing, cleaning up my wires, and syncing the bodies. Haven't gotten to drive it, and it's still pig rich, but at least it looks better in the engine bay now. Really needs a bath though. Pic whoring follows:
Oh please. *looks under hood of GN, Focus, Volvo* Yeah, your Miata bay is FILTHY! GET YOUR BALLS TO THE BALL WASHER, NOW!
Hurry up and get it tuned! I wanna go blast by Shane's place with those ITBs wailing
durden: you should join up on some of the clubroadster drives. Matt usually tosses me the keys to whichever roadster he doesn't feel like driving, or I can take my humble Focus.
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#1750534 - 08/14/07 12:12 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: Mr. Knowitall.]
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LNXGUY
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 107676
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
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Ok so I really appreciate that you work on your car and all, but are you modding it to be competitive in a league? If I'm not mistaken ITB's cost a lot of money and don't add a lot of power.
ITB's aren't expensive. I am guessing these are probably off a GSXR (or something similar).
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-Bill The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children. Left foot, right foot, just keep moving!!! -Jeffrey P. Murphy
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#1751112 - 08/14/07 03:05 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: SyFastfedful]
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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Yeah, fuck leagues, etc. Do most of us do exhausts or intakes to be class-competitive? No. We do it for the fun and the challenge of modifying our cars.
It won't add a ton of power, but it'll add a ton of FEEL to the car, and as we all know in the real world where there are no timers, feel is what matters. (I'm sorry, i just HAD to go there!)
Seriously though, I didn't want to do a turbo build, I love the sound of ITBs, i wanted a little more power, and I wanted to keep the Miata a Miata, not an overpowered, tough to control car with great numbers but less than stellar drivability.
$$/hp ratio is way off the poor end of the scale on these. If i'm lucky i'll end up at 145-148WHP when i'm done. That's about $100/1hp. End of the day every one of us knows that NA builds are anything but economical though, so I just don't count the dollars i'm flushing away. It's all about a fun car at the end of the day, and I'm already working on one turbo car. I wanted completely different experiences.
_________________________
-Matt '95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf "Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake "Ha... yeah if neon ownership teaches you one thing it's how to turn lemons into Country Time." -Spotch "If the market demand for snarky comments is below my current supply of sassy wit I can only assume the market will adjust itself accordingly. Any minute now. Dick." -2000SiRacer
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#1751117 - 08/14/07 03:08 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: LNXGUY]
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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ITB's aren't expensive. I am guessing these are probably off a GSXR (or something similar).
Nah, i had a set of AE101s for a while, and it was gonna cost me within 500.00 of what these cost to make them work on the Miata. After that i'd have still needed to blow 3-400 on a Megasquirt.
These were 1500 (1350 if you count the AE101s I sold) and basically bolted in. Building my own would have been false economy once i counted in my time, energy and efforts to get things made, runs to the parts store, etc, etc.
_________________________
-Matt '95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf "Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake "Ha... yeah if neon ownership teaches you one thing it's how to turn lemons into Country Time." -Spotch "If the market demand for snarky comments is below my current supply of sassy wit I can only assume the market will adjust itself accordingly. Any minute now. Dick." -2000SiRacer
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#1751229 - 08/14/07 03:38 PM
Re: More fun with the Miata... ITB FTW!
[Re: Damnit, Laverty]
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OnyxEros
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 17797
Loc: Seattle
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How are the guys at RRev? I spoke to AEM and they suggested i take my car and EMS to them to get some fancy tuning done
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[quote=turbo_guy_fieri][quote=Kuku]Silence is consent[/quote] [/quote]
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