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#8389761 - 10/05/15 01:33 PM new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov]
stickaz_old Offline
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wewt.
any advice on a decent 5k workout to improve speed a little? This requires approximately a ~:10s/mile drop in pace for me to hit this mini-goal. Truth to be told I want each mile split to start with a 6 :D, so my real goal is closer to 21:30

21:42 IIRC is a 7:00 paced 5k, so I need a little breathing room for across-the-board 6:xx mile splits [yes, 6:59's are fine! \:D ]

1 long/slow day
2 interval/speed work days
1 junk miles day [haha]

something like 20-25 miles/week? unrealistically low mileage for improvement?

*yes I still have ~2 biking days and 2-3 swim days/week also
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#8389806 - 10/05/15 01:54 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: stickaz_old]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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Easy. I bet you could hit it in 3 weeks training. Ditch the long runs and just run uncomfortably hard as often as you can. I'd get on a track 2 days a week too. Get a puke bucket handy!

Edit: I went from 20:38 to 18:35 by doing the above. You just gotta be committed to running really hard from gun to tape. Oh, and go for it in an actual race, not some random Tuesday in the neighborhood : D


Edited by Mrs. Ironmom (10/05/15 02:02 PM)
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#8389825 - 10/05/15 02:04 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: Sir Ironpool]
stickaz_old Offline
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all my PR's are rando tuesdays [you stalker!] at the HS track \:D
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#8389826 - 10/05/15 02:05 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: Sir Ironpool]
Design Offline
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You could totally do it, and should. Not sure I agree with the balls-out method Chris is suggesting, but the frequent hard runs are the best way to get there.
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#8389847 - 10/05/15 02:16 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: Sir Ironpool]
dirtyS13drifta
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 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
Easy. I bet you could hit it in 3 weeks training. Ditch the long runs and just run uncomfortably hard as often as you can. I'd get on a track 2 days a week too. Get a puke bucket handy!

Edit: I went from 20:38 to 18:35 by doing the above. You just gotta be committed to running really hard from gun to tape. Oh, and go for it in an actual race, not some random Tuesday in the neighborhood : D

I was telling him weekly.

Damn, you really don't think 2x a week of this sort of work is risky? I'll defer to your results tho...

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#8389875 - 10/05/15 02:33 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
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wewt, thanks guys. 3 weeks sounds hyper aggressive for any improvements no? \:D

I'm basically just thinking what occurs [in 3 weeks] is the cold weather + proper pacing + improving ever so slightly will allow a shot at what I think I may already be capable of [if that makes any sense], I think I have a 21:xx hiding in here somewhere [have thought that for a while, just havent been able to do it...]

\:D

at the track I like 800 repeats a lot I found out this year. 400 repeats are kinda fun too. I find 1200s less fun and mile repeats even less fun than that lol.

I was trying to run 800s at 6:45 pace or so [x8 for instance, with like 60s rest between] and that felt puke bucket worth after around 4 or so haha

mile repeats I never really found a comfortable interval and I think I went too slow [8:00 or 7:45 or so? heh]

basically I have a "quest for what pace do I run" which I guess is arrived by looking backwards or forwards from [2] things:

current/actual/best results/fitness for your goal pace [eg 7:10 pace 5k]
desired goal pace [eg 6:55/5k] and then to kinda converge the 2 in your workouts?

something like that? I know I'm making the newb mistake of running speedwork too slow. But understanding what pace to run the intervals at always confuses me and I find my mile-repeats speed often sucks really bad compared to my goal pace.

A simple rule I always heard was "goal pace -30s or something] /mile for 400s/800s/1200s/mile repeats. So like that would be ~6:15 to 6:45 pace or thereabouts depending.

Those paces for 400s and 800s I can make [sort of], but for 1200s/miles I fall off quickly...

If I modify the training paces to actual 5k paces [or even 5k + 30s] for the 1200s/miles I can make those intervals tho. Eg miles on 7:15 repeat I can make [x4 or so with like 2 mins rest]

basically I have no idea what I'm doing with interval training if that wasnt obvious..
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#8390065 - 10/05/15 04:05 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: ]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
Easy. I bet you could hit it in 3 weeks training. Ditch the long runs and just run uncomfortably hard as often as you can. I'd get on a track 2 days a week too. Get a puke bucket handy!

Edit: I went from 20:38 to 18:35 by doing the above. You just gotta be committed to running really hard from gun to tape. Oh, and go for it in an actual race, not some random Tuesday in the neighborhood : D

I was telling him weekly.

Damn, you really don't think 2x a week of this sort of work is risky? I'll defer to your results tho...


Nah, not if he's just focusing on this distance. Keep runs between 2 and 4 miles and pay attention to your body and I don't think he'll have any trouble. He has a good aerobic base, just needs to get the leg speed up there and get used to pushing past the "I think I'm gonna die" point about mile 2.
The 5k is an intense distance....it needs some intense training.



I am just a 40 year old dude with a dad bod and no professional training though, so who knows....he may spontaneously combust for all I know. \:D
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#8390088 - 10/05/15 04:12 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: Sir Ironpool]
stickaz_old Offline
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Registered: 02/04/01
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every.single.person in the bridge-to-bridge 5k was proudly sporting a dad bod [at least the leaders]. The "fit" crowd aka [do you even lift?] all were walking the hill haha \:D /hate mode off /for real doe

it must look ridiculous [for spectators] to see these spastic older dad-bod skinny fats [OP included obviously] cruising by the dudes who obviously cant be bothered to wear shirts very often \:D
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#8390209 - 10/05/15 04:59 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: Sir Ironpool]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
Easy. I bet you could hit it in 3 weeks training. Ditch the long runs and just run uncomfortably hard as often as you can. I'd get on a track 2 days a week too. Get a puke bucket handy!

Edit: I went from 20:38 to 18:35 by doing the above. You just gotta be committed to running really hard from gun to tape. Oh, and go for it in an actual race, not some random Tuesday in the neighborhood : D

I was telling him weekly.

Damn, you really don't think 2x a week of this sort of work is risky? I'll defer to your results tho...


Nah, not if he's just focusing on this distance. Keep runs between 2 and 4 miles and pay attention to your body and I don't think he'll have any trouble. He has a good aerobic base, just needs to get the leg speed up there and get used to pushing past the "I think I'm gonna die" point about mile 2.
The 5k is an intense distance....it needs some intense training.



I am just a 40 year old dude with a dad bod and no professional training though, so who knows....he may spontaneously combust for all I know. \:D

Nah you're probably right. I did weeklies, as my only run, for a few months.

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#8390313 - 10/05/15 06:18 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: ]
Ampsman in Extremis Offline
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Do this once a week.

https://www.strava.com/activities/405572007/overview
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#8390314 - 10/05/15 06:22 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: Ampsman in Extremis]
stickaz_old Offline
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Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
^jeebus. Neck tat/trucker hat required or can I go with dad shirt/nicer shorts? \:D

to scale that properly, what level of effort is holding 5:20/mile pace then rolling into intervals? 80%? so that guy is like a ~4:15 miler or something?

edit: his PR's listed are 14:37 5k and 1:06 for a half. not bad... could almost qualify for the olympics on that half PR right? [Rio standard is 1:05 for men], I believe 'B' standard in the 5k is 13:50 -- pretty close there too!

5k is bordering on pretty amazing too /woa
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"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


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#8390330 - 10/05/15 06:29 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: stickaz_old]
Ampsman in Extremis Offline
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Registered: 04/10/00
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Not tats, its mud from eating it while running a 6:30 fifty miler with 10k of vert. Hes kinda fast.
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#8390342 - 10/05/15 06:38 PM Re: new goal: 21:xx 5k in the month of Oct [ok possibly Nov] [Re: Ampsman in Extremis]
stickaz_old Offline
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Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
yea google suggests he qualified oly trials in 2012 in the marathon with a 2:18, so I guess this probably does represent an 80% level effort. Was just looking for a scale. I have more in common with a 35:00 5k'er than a 2:18 marathoner I think. Actually definitely. lol

so to backup: a tempo 3 miler followed by those 400/200 intervals for a total distance of 6-8 miles is a good workout \:D

your pace as a 2:18 marathoner may be around 5:20, or for mr 35:00 5k somewhere around 13:30 \:D

I'm guessing I'd be lucky to go much under 8:00 for this \:D
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