#8325450 - 08/11/15 01:55 PM
Project 1:40 half marathon failure blog post~edited
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stickaz_old
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We'll figure I might as well re-purpose my 1:50 thread to a 1:40
Just got a 1:47:43 in SF which is probably a 1:45 or so compared to mostly flat, and I paced a little conservative based on looking at my HR so perhaps I'm not too far off.
Anyways next goal is 1:40
Currently doing around 20 mow lol. Need to push that out to 30 or 35 or so as I also have my first marathon in July heh. I'm sure training for that is only going to help. Tri season is in full swing now also and kinda gets in the way but whatever.
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso 
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#8325494 - 08/11/15 02:13 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Take that tuesday run and week by week ratchet that up in distance. With 7 weeks that'll give you enough time to get 10-11 at pace and still have 1-2 weeks of recovery.
Don't bother with the 5km being a goal pace, just do it at whatever feels fun. Some weeks that might be fast, slow, whatever. You don't need 2 pace runs, just one good one.
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#8325521 - 08/11/15 02:24 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: ]
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stickaz_old
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wewt
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8325526 - 08/11/15 02:24 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: ]
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Lividentity
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
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I think it sounds like a lot of speed work. You're basically doing 3 speed work days and 1 slower day. Make the speed work days harder/longer and only do 1 and 1 day of hill and 1 slow day or something. Do your hard work hard and your easy work easy. Can't stress that enough. Also, having each run mean something helps. Don't just go do 5 miles just so you have 5 miles in and therefore hit X miles this week. Be consistent, go up in mileage some and keep the hard days hard and the easy days easy.
And, by the way, easy days are easier than you're thinking right now, yeah, easier than that too. More like 12 min pace, maybe more if its hot out.
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#8325543 - 08/11/15 02:35 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: Lividentity]
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stickaz_old
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huh, I cruise at 2 mins over my half goal pace on easy runs [so like 10:00--10:30], its no longer hot around here [able to run in the 60s/70s mostly these days *knock on wood*]
no real hills nearby/I'm lazy/I'd rather do a speed day then go drive out to the hills as I'd be done at the track before I even got there 
I believe "5 miles at goal pace" is a run that means something no? Eg I'm going out there and trying to hit 8:23 on the button on the gravely teeny hills near my work today---the effort will be solid as fuck [for me]--it's hot today [80s]
what I "learn" from this effort is a body-imprinting of my 'new' goal pace, and a chance to get some mini-hills/recovery in the middle of it and just working on some conditioning/base endurance. I've only got 6 weeks and I'm only doing 20-25 miles/week so this is one of my "key" weekly runs no? As is the speedwork, and so is the 'slow' run. The saturday "5k" is sort of a junk run but if I do it at 'goal pace' or near that it will make my long run sunday even tougher [the goal for sunday is mental toughness]
so yea I have a reason for every run no? No junk miles here man 
The speed days arent longer because I haven't conditioned myself to go beyond 25 miles in a week and I dont think now is a good time to start that :D, if I have a long run in there I dont really have much choice to move things around. Plus the tuesday run is a run on my lunch hour and I shower at work after I cant really be gone for 2 hrs [warmup, stretching, warmdown, shower, change, actually stuff something in my face to eat, etc]
not sure "goal pace" runs count as 'speed work' ? [I define speed work as efforts decently faster than my 5k pace which is 7:10]
thanks for the comments of course.
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8325550 - 08/11/15 02:37 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: Lividentity]
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dirtyS13drifta
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^ basically the same thing I'm saying.
You need to push the one 1 pace day to be harder. I think that'll do the most on toughening you up/curing your ailments with your gash. (which is all you need0.
The track work will boost your cardio and feel fun. Maybe mix up your distances (i.e do some 1200ms)
The long runs are just keeping you used to it. Like livid said, don't be afraid to go slow. 2-3 minutes behind pace is reasonable, IIRC. If anything, it's probably more about TIME spent moving than distance. There is technically too slow, but it's way out there.
At your stage in running, you're "mental toughness" doesn't come from running far (ie your long runs), it's from running fast. I.e you 9-11 mile pace runs will suck, but it's probably the most valuable run you'll do.
Edited by dirtyS13drifta (08/11/15 02:39 PM)
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#8325569 - 08/11/15 02:45 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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dirtyS13drifta
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See the "curing you ailment with your gash" comment.
Honestly you probably don't need 10+ at pace. 8 & 9 at pace will teach you a few things. But since those distances are still pretty fast recoveries, and you've got your base miles covered, so this is where you should commit your energy to improving.
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#8325578 - 08/11/15 02:49 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: ]
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stickaz_old
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Registered: 02/04/01
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#8325609 - 08/11/15 03:03 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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stickaz_old
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soon as this meeting is over project 5.x miles in the sun/heat at goal pace weeeee [on bitchy little hills too, these 20' rollers are some BULLSHIT :D]
strava shows no elevation whatsoever but it's a solid 200' of climbs in 5 miles out there man /cries softly
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8325618 - 08/11/15 03:09 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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dirtyS13drifta
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strava didn't record my ride in today
/thus it didn't happen
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#8325932 - 08/11/15 06:48 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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Lividentity
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
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I did the Hal Higdon Half-Marathon Advanced training plan when I did my PR of 1:40. (http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51133/Half-Marathon-Advanced-Training-Program)
As you can see it only has 1 real speed day a week. If you do it hard enough you'll be drained. The thing you don't want to do is go into the blackhole zone of heart rate zone. That's what happens when you do your hard runs at 8min pace and your easy runs at 10min pace. Your HR on the hard run isn't high enough, and not low enough on the easy run.
I'm not some expert, and I highly doubt anyone of us in here will say they are either. Just throwing out info that's helped us in the past.
Take those .25/.5/1 mile repeats and burn them as fast as you can and you'll do great. 
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#8326025 - 08/11/15 08:32 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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Lividentity
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Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
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Yes, yes, best way to PR a race is skipping speed workouts. You are learning young padawan. :P
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#8326570 - 08/12/15 11:51 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: Lividentity]
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Design
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Registered: 12/11/02
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My best results came from one day of tempo and another day of intervals. I don't think two days of speed work is too much, providing you allow at least a full day for recovery (knowing your history). Also consider increasing the 5K to a 10K to simulate more realistic fatigue during your long slow run the day after.
Seriously consider working in some basic strength training if you can. And foam roll/stretch the hell out of your legs after each hard run. As Chris said, gotta train fast to race fast.
_________________________
09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#8326933 - 08/12/15 03:36 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Shouldn't have jogged with your lady
The fact you did tells me you should have gone faster/further.
But yeah, 90% of programs specify:
1 day of speed, ~10% or less of total milage
1 day of pace (not truly speed work, but obviously taxing)
1 long
everything else
I actually hate Pace days the most. They're exhausting.
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#8333171 - 08/18/15 11:22 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Nice job!
Next week 7 miles!
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#8333186 - 08/19/15 12:18 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: ]
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Design
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Registered: 12/11/02
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Loc: The OC
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Nice work man. Keep at it!
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#8341100 - 08/26/15 07:00 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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Lividentity
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
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Nice run man! Even some up and down on the elevation. Having attractive females ahead of you is one of the best motivations out there lol.
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#8341450 - 08/26/15 10:12 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: Lividentity]
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dirtyS13drifta
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I thought you told me your heart would explode at those sort of paces. 151 seems pretty great. Maybe even a little more in the tank.
Given the heat you were complaining about, this seems likes a solid result for a gravel trail run. Good job.
Next week: get back on teh road(since that's where your race is), and go further.
P.s how does strava record 5 miles above total avreage pace, 1 mile 1 second faster? That seems mathematically iffy.
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#8341543 - 08/26/15 10:33 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: ]
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stickaz_old
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Looks like you're looking at that final datapoint? Was just trying to show final HR, it also shows final pace there too when I stopped. Avg hr was 143, so seems a bit higher effort than last time. Sad to say it had cooled off s bunch by the time I finally got out there around 6:20p, maybe 76* and breezy lol
Looks like I did about a 25:30 5k then a 26:30 5k so I slowed up a bit, but the avg works out to 8:23, also I know I'm losing time due to the three complete stop/turn back around (180) this route has, the GPS just thinks I'm running at 10:00/pace or hire for a bit on each turn
I think I learned a. It about pain thresholds on this one. It hurts but I lived and can still push the pace a little (like when a chick in a tankini is passing hehe)
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8341573 - 08/26/15 10:40 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Your avereage was 143?
Go faster
I do like you hit 8:23 pace.
go Faster
next week: 7.5 miles at 8:20. Any path with lots of tankinis?
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#8341585 - 08/26/15 10:46 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: ]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
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Heh, last year I managed to avg 152 hr in the San Jose half, and I had like stage 3 DOMS immediately (couldn't walk down a set of 3-stairs without humping the handrail), also walking the 1.5 miles home took forever lol
Finished around 157 hr
I'm assuming that is really my limit- as a year later through many other races I haven't quite hit that level again and I've tried--but my leg strength gave out on me around mile 10 there so maybe it's a little higher than that maybe (160 for 2 hrs?)
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8341713 - 08/26/15 11:30 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Unregistered
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You can't have immediate DOMS
That's a cramp, or just fatigue.
The fact your legs gave out tell me your heart/cardio system wasn't the issue. More likely your legs weren't strong enough for the abuse, or your sodium/fluid were messed up.
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#8341729 - 08/26/15 11:34 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: ]
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stickaz_old
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Registered: 02/04/01
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Oic, yea I was better the next day
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8341961 - 08/26/15 01:21 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11514
Loc: The OC
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Keep going man. Looking good!
_________________________
09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#8358020 - 09/09/15 09:37 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: Design]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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completely off the rails at this point:
long pace runs [6,7,8 miles] are but a memory replaced by pace-runs on the treadmill and brisk 5k's in the 90*F weather.
Skipped last weeks long run too. Ended last week at like 11-12 miles lol. [was on a 25-per pace prior 4 weeks], at 6.x so far this week. Got an Oly tri on sunday so long run is out this week too, out of town next week so possibly back to the treadmill then too
#skidding_into_it
with the race on the 27th I see only [2] actual quality workouts left
on the 15th, on a bus trip I'll see if I can run 8.0 at goal pace somewhere, and on the 19th I'll get my final long run in [13-14] at 10:30 pace or something relaxing. sigh
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8358117 - 09/09/15 10:37 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
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Well at least you've got your excuses well lined up 4 weeks in advance!
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#8358526 - 09/09/15 01:17 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: ]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11514
Loc: The OC
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Well at least you've got your excuses well lined up 4 weeks in advance!
Oh snap! 
_________________________
09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#8370662 - 09/18/15 11:43 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: Design]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
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Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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#8373183 - 09/21/15 03:06 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11514
Loc: The OC
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Good job man. 
_________________________
09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#8380164 - 09/28/15 09:02 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: stickaz_old]
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Lividentity
Major Member
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
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Even without hitting 1:50 you still came in sub-2 and got a PR, win! Good job man! Maybe you just didn't eat enough pasta the night before.
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#8380727 - 09/28/15 04:15 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: 137]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11514
Loc: The OC
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Nice work man. Keep at it!
_________________________
09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#8380989 - 09/28/15 07:54 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: Impulsive]
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Lividentity
Major Member
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
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Running 15 miles a week for sub 2 hours is no joke. Hit a solid 25 miles per week/100 per month and you'll sub 1:45 all day.
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#8381749 - 09/29/15 11:53 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: Lividentity]
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The Mighty BellRacer
Daps up men at the gym
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Few things I look forward to more on this forum, than OPs fitness posts.
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#8383500 - 09/30/15 02:02 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered
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I think OP's coach is most the problem...
Seriously though, great job OP.
More weekly milage(we covered this)
Run pace runs, regularly. Once a week, get used to the suffer. (we covered this)
Quit surfing the day before a race, numbnuts. I guarantee you that cost you 5 minutes. (we covered taking it easy this week too!)
Edited by dirtyS13drifta (09/30/15 02:05 PM)
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#8384193 - 10/01/15 07:31 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: Ampsman in Extremis]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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read that article, thanks!
so a few things to improve, also I want to start having a rest week here and there. Guess I shouldnt complain about being burnt out but I didnt really take any weeks off and I felt like I was perpetually sore every.single.monday for the entire year since my long-slow-run was always sunday. then I'd roll into a day for junk miles I think because of that...
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#8386278 - 10/02/15 11:06 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: Ampsman in Extremis]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered
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To clarify?
No junk miles, but you still have a long slow run. It's deliberately long and slow. It's not junk though.
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#8605744 - 03/30/16 11:18 AM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: ]
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schtickaz.ai
Professor Data
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update: 4 days out [apr 3]
RnR SF half attempt 2, last year 2:00:39. Earlier in this thread I see I was thinking of pegging 1:55:00 as my goal for the next SF RnR. Nah... :p, that's now plan 'B'
hopefully lessons learned/fitness improved and although my goal isn't sub 1:50:00 on this hilly course, it's pretty close. Shooting for 1:52:00
I've averaged only 21mpw this year which included [2] burnout weeks, a vacation or 2, and only a few times hitting 30mpw so this is probably a more realistic assesment of where I'm at. Compared to last year at this point though I was only at 16 mpw though, so I'm up a little bit anyways.
Hopefully some of the advice here I can put into action [run by feel], I think some of my pace runs [running at goal half pace for 8-ish miles] have taught me what running at/slightly above goal pace feels like. I also learned a good lesson on bonking when I blew up on one of these earlier.
Other than that I will pay attention to my HR--at least in the early goings, and I'm looking to avoid entering zone 5 before about mile 8 ideally. Whenever I've gotten in trouble in a race at this distance it seems I've entered zone 5 at/around mile 4 or even earlier.
So to placate my tender vagina my plan involves hitting the first 4-5 miles at roughly ~8:40 pace /effort wise [so on course even slower due to the biggest hill sitting at mile 1]. From there if its a good day to bring it down casually and try to finish strong over the final 5 which is something that historically I manage to fail at owing pacing problems or just having a bad day or who knows. My PR at this distance is just from an ordinary training run [1:53:nn] on a trail near me 3 months ago so I figure my goal pace is do-able I just have to be smart about the pacing and not a slave to my watch. Also got to buffer in nearly :60s for that final hill at mile 11 [another 200' er] and to pay attention to the delta at the mile 10 clock on course with what my watch is telling me my ET is --to account for non-shortest path on course overages and any GPS oddities--the big buildings do tend to screw things up.
So I've got this GAP-based mile split chart that I used to ballpark what proper pacing would look like for me based on altitude adjustment but I've thrown it out. The only one I'm remembering is I want to hit mile 1 at 9:40 [try not to laugh lol, it has a 200' hill on it, so thats about right for my goal if not a little fast still]. Other than that just want to make a mental note of where the hills are and to try and run it by feel while trying to take care to stay out of zone 5 HR until at least mile 7. Preferably 8 or even 9 though.
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general douchebaggery
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#8605873 - 03/30/16 12:12 PM
Re: Project 1:50 half marathon failure blog post--7 weeks to go
[Re: schtickaz.ai]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11514
Loc: The OC
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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Moderator: Silock, Professor Paki
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[it's 17 days away, but yes, retroactively I've been creating excuses for some time now]
