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#8173998 - 04/16/15 11:43 AM Subways can be profitable.... when done right
phoenixrage Offline
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Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 50785
Loc: People's Republic of Ontario
http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/30/news/hong-kong-mtr-subway-property/

 Quote:
The city's subway is the face of the Mass Transit Railway Corporation (MTR) -- a publicly traded company that pulled in $5.2 billion in revenue last year.
With a $2 billion annual profit, the Hong Kong's subway is an anomaly among major rail networks. New York's subway, for example, suffers from chronic funding gaps and will spend nearly $2.5 billion in 2015 to service its debt.
How does Hong Kong's train and bus network manage to clear its mind-boggling margins?
First off, this is one impressive subway system. Even with more than 5 million daily commuters, MTR trains boast a 99.9% on-time arrival rate. Fares are notoriously cheap ($.50 to $3), but cover roughly 175% of the system's operating costs.
But the company's real profits are derived from a lesser-known side of the business: property development. Some 50 major properties across Hong Kong are owned, developed or managed by MTR, including two of the city's tallest skyscrapers.
"Sometimes critics say it's a property development firm doing a side business of rail," said Tim Hau, a professor at University of Hong Kong's School of Economics and Finance.
Here's how it works: MTR enjoys a special relationship with the Hong Kong government, which is also its majority shareholder. The government provides land -- at no cost -- for use by the train operator, and MTR is then allowed to develop the areas above and around its stations.
Related: Taking a ride on the world's most envied metro system
MTR often builds shopping malls right on top of stations -- it owns 13. Last year, rents at the malls went up by an average of 14%. Below ground, each subway stop is jam-packed with retail outlets, which all pay rent to MTR or have a profit-sharing agreement in place.
You can find every kind of retail in the stations -- even Michelin-starred dim sum restaurants.
Wong Sau Lan has been managing one such restaurant, called Tim Ho Wan, for the past two years. She said the restaurant's MTR outlet, located in a subway station that serves the central business district, is twice as popular as its flagship restaurant.
For the 14 hours that Tim Ho Wan is open each day, people will, on average, wait 40 minutes for the MTR dining experience.
MTR is now exporting its model abroad. It's already been commissioned to build and run lines in China, the United Kingdom, Sweden and Australia, and more projects are in the works.
"They'll go wherever there's a profit," said Hau. "There aren't that many viable competitors in the world."
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#8174030 - 04/16/15 12:06 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: phoenixrage]
f22b-dohc Offline
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Registered: 09/09/05
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CSI meAt HK ?

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#8174044 - 04/16/15 12:16 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: f22b-dohc]
zaius Online   ob1
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Registered: 04/30/05
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i feel that the MTR works cause of the shear number of users they have commuting at one time AND it's distance based fares (or whatever it's called).

when you build a subway (like the sheppard line) which goes to butt fuck nowhere and only serves 1000 commuters a day (i made that up), of course it's economically not feasible.

HK doesn't have the crazy bureaucracy like Ontario. it also can't get anything done without self interest politicians getting paid off by construction companies.
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#8174101 - 04/16/15 12:40 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: zaius]
phoenixrage Offline
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Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 50785
Loc: People's Republic of Ontario
I think you missed the part where the MTR owns everything above the stations, so its getting retail rental income (or profit sharing depending on the agreement).
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#8174105 - 04/16/15 12:42 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: zaius]
TheRealCSnapper Moderator Offline
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i <3 the MTR, despite how inexpensive it is to take a taxi in HK, i'll ALWASY prefer to take MTR.

it's fast, wait time is next to nothing, outside of rush hours, it's actually bearable. but most importantly, it's what they mentioned in the article. they made the station a point of interest. if you're meeting for dinner, chances are you're going to a place above a station, and attached to world class shopping malls.

i also think the car culture is nothing like that of canada. and people doesn't travel the distance we do here. the HK urban sprawl doesn't sprawl out that much,

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#8174312 - 04/16/15 02:16 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: TheRealCSnapper]
Choco 'Nuck Offline
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Registered: 07/10/01
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Sell the TTC just like Hydro. Instead, they only sell them things that make a shitload of profit
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#8174375 - 04/16/15 02:42 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: TheRealCSnapper]
iamfob Offline
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Registered: 09/06/02
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 Originally Posted By: c_snapper
i <3 the MTR, despite how inexpensive it is to take a taxi in HK, i'll ALWASY prefer to take MTR.

it's fast, wait time is next to nothing, outside of rush hours, it's actually bearable. but most importantly, it's what they mentioned in the article. they made the station a point of interest. if you're meeting for dinner, chances are you're going to a place above a station, and attached to world class shopping malls.

i also think the car culture is nothing like that of canada. and people doesn't travel the distance we do here. the HK urban sprawl doesn't sprawl out that much,


this!
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#8174517 - 04/16/15 03:33 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: iamfob]
zaius Online   ob1
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Loc: Toronto
i wonder which malls they own. i just went to the sha tin mall over the holidays and holy mackerel it's HUGE.
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#8175160 - 04/16/15 11:57 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: zaius]
TheRealCSnapper Moderator Offline
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Registered: 12/05/02
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 Originally Posted By: zaius
i wonder which malls they own. i just went to the sha tin mall over the holidays and holy mackerel it's HUGE.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTR_Corporation#Shopping_centres

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#8175350 - 04/17/15 08:45 AM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: TheRealCSnapper]
4Three Offline
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Registered: 12/21/00
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Loc: Markham, ON, Canada
if the transit system here would start charge by distance, it would encourage a lot more usage. who wants to pay full fare to go 3 or 4 subway stops?
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#8175799 - 04/17/15 12:23 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: 4Three]
iamfob Offline
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Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 24697
Loc: Out There
I grew up in Kowloon Bay, the Telford Shopping Mall is definitely own by MTR
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#8175801 - 04/17/15 12:23 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: zaius]
iamfob Offline
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Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 24697
Loc: Out There
 Originally Posted By: zaius
i wonder which malls they own. i just went to the sha tin mall over the holidays and holy mackerel it's HUGE.


http://www.mtr.com.hk/en/corporate/properties/mtrshopping_centres.html
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#8175843 - 04/17/15 12:34 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: 4Three]
iamfob Offline
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Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 24697
Loc: Out There
 Originally Posted By: 4Three
if the transit system here would start charge by distance, it would encourage a lot more usage. who wants to pay full fare to go 3 or 4 subway stops?

Agreed but it's TTC we're talking here
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#8175910 - 04/17/15 01:02 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: iamfob]
TheRealCSnapper Moderator Offline
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Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 31955
Loc: Toronto, Canada
i love that the CNN video shows that they can replace a 60M section of a track in a little over 2 hours, yet in Toronto, once a year, the TTC has to shut down a major intersection FOR 2-3 WEEKS to replace/repair the tracks
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#8176124 - 04/17/15 02:45 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: TheRealCSnapper]
iamfob Offline
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Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 24697
Loc: Out There
^ also in HK, the roads can be repaved within a week. Here it takes them over a year to repair Gardiner East, Jesus Christ
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#8184298 - 04/23/15 10:27 PM Re: Subways can be profitable.... when done right [Re: phoenixrage]
Screamin Type ARGH! Offline
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Registered: 02/20/01
Posts: 47668
Loc: T.O. - Canaduh
 Originally Posted By: phoenixrage
http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/30/news/hong-kong-mtr-subway-property/

 Quote:
The city's subway is the face of the Mass Transit Railway Corporation (MTR) -- a publicly traded company that pulled in $5.2 billion in revenue last year.
With a $2 billion annual profit, the Hong Kong's subway is an anomaly among major rail networks. New York's subway, for example, suffers from chronic funding gaps and will spend nearly $2.5 billion in 2015 to service its debt.
How does Hong Kong's train and bus network manage to clear its mind-boggling margins?
First off, this is one impressive subway system. Even with more than 5 million daily commuters, MTR trains boast a 99.9% on-time arrival rate. Fares are notoriously cheap ($.50 to $3), but cover roughly 175% of the system's operating costs.
But the company's real profits are derived from a lesser-known side of the business: property development. Some 50 major properties across Hong Kong are owned, developed or managed by MTR, including two of the city's tallest skyscrapers.
"Sometimes critics say it's a property development firm doing a side business of rail," said Tim Hau, a professor at University of Hong Kong's School of Economics and Finance.
Here's how it works: MTR enjoys a special relationship with the Hong Kong government, which is also its majority shareholder. The government provides land -- at no cost -- for use by the train operator, and MTR is then allowed to develop the areas above and around its stations.
Related: Taking a ride on the world's most envied metro system
MTR often builds shopping malls right on top of stations -- it owns 13. Last year, rents at the malls went up by an average of 14%. Below ground, each subway stop is jam-packed with retail outlets, which all pay rent to MTR or have a profit-sharing agreement in place.
You can find every kind of retail in the stations -- even Michelin-starred dim sum restaurants.
Wong Sau Lan has been managing one such restaurant, called Tim Ho Wan, for the past two years. She said the restaurant's MTR outlet, located in a subway station that serves the central business district, is twice as popular as its flagship restaurant.
For the 14 hours that Tim Ho Wan is open each day, people will, on average, wait 40 minutes for the MTR dining experience.
MTR is now exporting its model abroad. It's already been commissioned to build and run lines in China, the United Kingdom, Sweden and Australia, and more projects are in the works.
"They'll go wherever there's a profit," said Hau. "There aren't that many viable competitors in the world."


*boom*
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