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#8159854 - 04/06/15 12:02 PM New to road cycling...breathing?
dirtyS13drifta
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So I've got about 20 miles on the new bike now.
on the hoods I've got an easy~3ish mph pick-up based on perceived effort (placebo I'm sure). And a HUGE increase in acceleration rate.

However when I go to "sprint" I find that anything above 20 mph makes me winded. Seemingly moreso than my old mtn bike. Like even hitting 25+ on the flats seems harder than it used to. But only from a breathing point of view.

A. my cardio actually sucks, but the heavier bike made the legs the weak point, now the lungs are showing their weakness? Get working those invervals
b. the tucked position is scrunching my lungs up, get more flexible
c. I've got to learn to make "power" in the drops. Just keep practicing
d. get an e-bike.
e. get some sort of topical cream for your symptons.

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#8159869 - 04/06/15 12:09 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
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aero wheels
aero bars
lycra
vaginal cream
tuck

in all seriousness, holding 20++ in the flats is something I still view as a 'goal' to achieve. I managed it precisely [once] in a race [12 mile bike leg of a sprint tri with a ~300' hill] overall, and it was a bitch. it hurt. no idea mang.
cyclists all talk about increasing your 'threshold power', make more watts at a similar effort I guess to be fast

or use the aero tricks on the table and take less watts to go fast with what you have.

or a little of both

I think interval training is the key to increasing threshold power
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#8159901 - 04/06/15 12:30 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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Probably more of a position thing than a fitness one. In the drops you're closing yourself up more than you are riding more upright on the hoods. Do it more and it should get easier.
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#8159904 - 04/06/15 12:31 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
Risky Business Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
So I've got about 20 miles on the new bike now.
on the hoods I've got an easy~3ish mph pick-up based on perceived effort (placebo I'm sure). And a HUGE increase in acceleration rate.

However when I go to "sprint" I find that anything above 20 mph makes me winded. Seemingly moreso than my old mtn bike. Like even hitting 25+ on the flats seems harder than it used to. But only from a breathing point of view.

A. my cardio actually sucks, but the heavier bike made the legs the weak point, now the lungs are showing their weakness? Get working those invervals
b. the tucked position is scrunching my lungs up, get more flexible
c. I've got to learn to make "power" in the drops. Just keep practicing
d. get an e-bike.
e. get some sort of topical cream for your symptons.


20 miles is not enough to determine much, you are still getting used to the bike as is your endurance.

Do you have long arms? I remember you had a pretty short stem on that, I ride a 58cm frame with a 130mm 6degree stem and feel pretty good. Prior to that I rode a 57cm frame w/110 mm stem, before moving up to a longer stem I was bunched up on the bike and wasn't as efficient/relaxed as I was/am on the 130mm.

Do you have a trainer or rollers? Take a vid on those and upload here so we can see how you fit your current bike.

edit: holding 20 on a flat straight with minimimal wind should be fairly effortless for a long period.

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#8159923 - 04/06/15 12:38 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Risky Business]
nato2377 Online   willy_nilly
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sounds like a combo of A and B to me. more so A
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#8160297 - 04/06/15 05:54 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
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f) put in base miles before trying to "sprint" on day 1. Your legs and lungs aren't ready.
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#8160401 - 04/06/15 07:41 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: robbbby]
JT Offline
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 Originally Posted By: robbbby
f) put in base miles before trying to "sprint" on day 1. Your legs and lungs aren't ready.


So much this. The fix is to simply ride more. Do sign sprints every now and then. Soon you'll realize you're performing better.
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#8160449 - 04/06/15 08:34 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: JT]
nato2377 Online   willy_nilly
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just dont ride like zakcits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpymMb2M4OE

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#8160610 - 04/06/15 10:50 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: robbbby]
dirtyS13drifta
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 Originally Posted By: robbbby
f) put in base miles before trying to "sprint" on day 1. Your legs and lungs aren't ready.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I ride these exact same areas on a commuter modified mtn bike. I'm capable of getting said bike similarly loaded up to such speeds. Depending on day. I'm finding my top flat land speed is lower on the road bike right now.

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#8160618 - 04/06/15 11:19 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
gamby Offline
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FWIW, holding 20mph for an extended period is the realm of very good cyclists.

I put forth a moderate effort today on my flat 20 mile out-and back loop. I fought the wind on the way back, but my average speed (on my 27 lb cross bike on knobbies) was only 15.6 mph. It hovered around 16.0 mph until that last few miles (dat wind and final climb to my car doe).

The best I've done on that loop is ~19.8 mph on a windless summer day on my "fast" bike at the point in the season where my conditioning is really good. Holding 25 in the flats is nato territory (elite doe)

I don't ride in the drops much (90% of my time is on the hoods), but it's definitely good to get used to it because aero. When I TT I try to stay there as much as possible.

Ride hills. Ride more hills. The more you climb, the more cardio stamina you'll get--and the stronger your legs will get.
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#8160626 - 04/06/15 11:45 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
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more volume more better
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#8161186 - 04/07/15 11:10 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Euphoricuck]
dirtyS13drifta
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Sorry, Let me clarify. I'm not thinking I can pull 25 for 12-20 miles.

As of last week I can get my mtn bike up to 25 for a light to light sort of range. I've struggled getting the new bike much above say 22. The lungs seem to be my limiting factor.

However last night I was able to get back into that range.

I think it really is just getting used to the bike. I think because it's so responsive I expect to go from 0-25 quickly, and spend a lot of energy accelerating. Vs just cruising at 18-20 then moving up to 25(much easier).

I also think I've been "tense" on the bike and not really just cruising. Getting out of stop n'go traffic will help.

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#8161278 - 04/07/15 11:55 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
gamby Offline
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As others have said, it's most likely a matter of just building your base miles. Are you still in good running shape? If so, then the lung issues are puzzling, although cycling is an entirely different activity. The more miles you rack up, the more comfortable you're gonna be on the bike.

If you're crunched for time, get a trainer and do a few 30min-1 hour interval sessions throughout the week.

You don't have a flyweight bike with 700x23 tires, so it's still a bit of a bear to accelerate on. That said, it should be leaps and bounds faster than an old MTB.

I also wonder if the computer on the MTB was accurately calibrated. \:\)
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#8161391 - 04/07/15 12:33 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
nato2377 Online   willy_nilly
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 Originally Posted By: gamby


I also wonder if the computer on the MTB was accurately calibrated. \:\)


this. theres no way the road bike should be harder. If you have the lungs to do it on a mtb, than you have the lungs to do it on a road bike

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#8161394 - 04/07/15 12:34 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: nato2377]
stickaz_old Offline
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he's using a smartphone GPS IIRC
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#8161608 - 04/07/15 02:29 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
The Mighty BellRacer Offline
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yeah, what you're saying isn't making much sense. especially...

"I think it really is just getting used to the bike. I think because it's so responsive I expect to go from 0-25 quickly, and spend a lot of energy accelerating. Vs just cruising at 18-20 then moving up to 25(much easier)."

even from a basic mechanics standpoint. it's definitely in your head.


Edited by BellRacer (04/07/15 02:30 PM)

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#8161849 - 04/07/15 04:53 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



You don't think you use more fuel in you car going 0-60 hard vs cruising at 50 and just accelerating that last 10 mph?

The act of accelerating demands power.
Speeds.

Basically Becsuse the new bike is quicker I'm trying to do things I didn't on the old bike.

Yesterday I did manage to crack 25 every loaded up. I just gradually climbed to 18 and pushed a little. Rather than rowing through the gears as fast as possible trying to get up to speed.


Cn: it's mostly in my head. And I need to quit riding like a bike messenger with a late package.


Edited by dirtyS13drifta (04/07/15 04:53 PM)

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#8162073 - 04/07/15 06:34 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
nato2377 Online   willy_nilly
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it should take less power to accel the road bike (sports car) than the mtb (semi truck) due to weight and rolling resistance of the tires...is that what youre gettng at? I think im lost at what you are trying to get at lol
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#8162104 - 04/07/15 06:46 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
SJP0tato Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
I think it really is just getting used to the bike. I think because it's so responsive I expect to go from 0-25 quickly, and spend a lot of energy accelerating. Vs just cruising at 18-20 then moving up to 25(much easier).


How's your fit on the bike? If you have things off enough, it can really rob you of power/comfort.

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#8162802 - 04/08/15 10:27 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: nato2377]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: nato2377
? I think im lost at what you are trying to get at lol

I do that to a lot of people

 Originally Posted By: nato2377
it should take less power to accel the road bike (sports car) than the mtb (semi truck) due to weight and rolling resistance of the tires...is that what youre gettng at?


Agreed.
What I'm saying is because the new sports car is so much quicker, I'm constantly romping on it, at every light. Then bitchign when I'm filling it up more than the old pick-up truck.
If I rode with any sense of energy conservation I'd appreciate the ease of speed. But I'm just going out and hammering it from a stoplight every time.

Fwiw, I do think the gears are actually a wider spread than my mtn bike. I'll have to look up the specs to confirm.

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#8163114 - 04/08/15 12:32 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
gamby Offline
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What's the gearing on the road bike? If it's a 50/34 crank and a 12-32 cassette, then yes, the gearing might be a bit more spaced-out than an older mountainbike with a triple crank.

Two of my bikes have that "nether region" where one gear is too high and one is too low. Granted, on the cross bike, I never notice it off-road--only on-road.

I have another thought. It takes me a solid 4 miles to warm up on a ride. The first 4 miles of a ride are me thinking "this is gonna be a shit ride--I'm dragging ass". Then I get my mojo and I'm fine.

Sprinting from light to light just might get you more winded than you're used to, though.
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#8173819 - 04/16/15 10:24 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
dirtyS13drifta
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yeah, 50/34 and an 12/30 cassette I think

I'm starting to get more used to it. I think much of it was the wattage from accelerating. Now that I'm used to cruising at a speeds, and then accelerating I'm feeling it more.

Add in, with all the accessories I'm hardly on a aerodynamic ride.

Should I shave my legs yet?


Edited by dirtyS13drifta (04/16/15 10:24 AM)

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#8173823 - 04/16/15 10:27 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
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cool, thats a compact crank setup. hell yes on the shaving. [30-45s I think in a 40k time trial they say is the benefit, eg similar to an aero helmet]
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#8174019 - 04/16/15 12:00 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
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My arms too? I'm chewbacca.
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#8174538 - 04/16/15 03:48 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
robbbby Offline
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shave everything, including eyebrows.
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#8174746 - 04/16/15 06:40 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Online   willy_nilly
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^ this
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#8175054 - 04/16/15 10:22 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: nato2377]
dirtyS13drifta
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Can I keep the pubes?
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#8175186 - 04/17/15 12:45 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
gamby Offline
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Um, no.

I might do the ol' FB attention-whoring as the MS150 nears and post "if I raise XXX by XXX, I'll shave my legs and post pics". Cheezy, but I'm thinking it'll get a good response.

Otherwise, no shaved legs for me.

BTW--just added a bunch of titanium shit and some lighter misc. to my main bike (a bunch of ti bolts, ti pedal spindles, ti derailleur hanger bolt, flyweight aluminum seatpost, lighter seat [don't know if I'll like it--might end up on the cross bike], lighter stem). After the new (lighter) cassette, I'll tally up the grams I shed. I'm thinking it'll be .75 lbs.

Did it for shits and giggles, because I didn't spring for a new frameset and I like to give my bike a fairly major makeover before every season.
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#8175830 - 04/17/15 12:31 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
dirtyS13drifta
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So the last 2 days I've managed 19.5mph and 18.1 on my 4.5mi commute, Roughly 200' down, 150' up

Given the 8 lights, pannier, rear fender, and non cycling clothes, I feel like that's reasonable.

My prior record was 18.5 on the old bike (about a month ago).

Now given much of this is probably the lights/traffic. But regardless I feel like I'm starting to see the rewards of the bike (well that general cycling fitness).

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#8175836 - 04/17/15 12:33 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
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^bike placebo effect, defended
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#8175969 - 04/17/15 01:18 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



What's a decent 40km(unoffical) for a newb? Sub 1:20? 1:10?
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#8175983 - 04/17/15 01:23 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
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dunno, I'm shooting for 1:22:00 with a teeny hill [~300'] sunday \:D

*am slow as fuck doe
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#8176018 - 04/17/15 01:38 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



You're also saving fuel for a 10km afterwards.

And swimming further before hand than I've ever swam in my life (combined).

Without the rest of the tri, you could crack 1:15 right?

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#8176027 - 04/17/15 01:43 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
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*with a favorable wind [eg either a tail primarily or nuetral wind] I think I could go under 1:15 on mostly flat terrain

**in aero tuck the entire way, on zipps, aero helmet, and mostly if not completely flat terrain, lycra, etc

***while feeling like this guy the entire time:
-->https://www.facebook.com/usacycling/videos/10152817649426334/
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#8176352 - 04/17/15 04:30 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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Fastest I managed was a 1:04 on the 40k bike leg of a Tri in Palm Springs a few years. Mostly flat and a looped course so it was a good course to go fast on. I was in full aero mode though. \:D




Edited by Mrs. Ironmom (04/17/15 04:32 PM)
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#8176355 - 04/17/15 04:33 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Sir Ironpool]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



so -5 for not full aero, -5 for not chris, -5 for not even a road-bike.

So 1:19 is a good target after I learn the distance?

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#8176359 - 04/17/15 04:37 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
so -5 for not full aero, -5 for not chris, -5 for not even a road-bike.

So 1:19 is a good target after I learn the distance?


Lol, sounds legit. \:D

That's the thing I never cared for about cycling. Unless you're in a time trial, there are just too many variables that affect speed and performance.
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#8176366 - 04/17/15 04:41 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Sir Ironpool]
stickaz_old Offline
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the wind/terrain being the biggest. All my PR's are set under favorable winds it seems [I'm sure the same as everyone else], a solid ~2 mph variable it seems
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#8176371 - 04/17/15 04:45 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Sir Ironpool]
dirtyS13drifta
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I guess I'm just trying to get a sense of what's reasonable.

I.e 8 min pace is running(which I can do for about 1-ish hour if my feet let me train, but I can't do for say a 1/2).



My no gym home for home:
If 8/min for running 1 hour is running, what mph for riding a bike is "cycling"

I mean anyone can hit 8min for a mile, or 20mph for a mile, but what's a good pushing pace when it becomes modestly respectable.

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#8176376 - 04/17/15 04:50 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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I think maintaining 17-20 mph over rolling terrain is totally respectable and fairly "quick."
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#8176408 - 04/17/15 05:13 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Sir Ironpool]
stickaz_old Offline
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yea I think avg'ing 20.0 mph on a 40k TT is a bigger accomplishment in an absolute sense than say a 10K run of 8:00/miles

I'm thinking it's closer to say something like

17.0 - 17.5 mph avg is like 8:00/mi pace for an hour-ish

*my perspective is probably skewed as I do a bit better relative to my peers on the bike than I do on the run

I try to answer some of these Q's simply by looking at the data. I take a mid-packer from a tri near me and see what he did

example:
pleasanton international tri [last year], run/bike only a little hilly. maybe 2k on the bike and less than half that on the run

35-39 winner went

1:05:xx bike 40k [22.94 mph]
38:03 on the 10k [6:07/mi pace]


mr. midpacker 35-39 [#24 out of 49 finishers]
1:17:23 bike 40k [19.3 mph]
:51:50 run 10k [8:20/mi pace]

eg, the only way I get into the top half is a decent swim \:D
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#8176419 - 04/17/15 05:17 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
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So taking your numbers and rounding to be faster (& because not doing a tri, but a solo event)

Sure seems like 20mph is pretty close to 8min/mile, gym for home. (okay, maybe 19mph)

p.s 1k of vertical is a lot on a road 10km.

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#8176420 - 04/17/15 05:19 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
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even the mid packers are rolling disc rear wheels and carbon fiber tri bikes tho, so you have to knock a bit down [~2mph?] on their bike segments
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#8176437 - 04/17/15 05:38 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Sir Ironpool]
gamby Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
I think maintaining 17-20 mph over rolling terrain is totally respectable and fairly "quick."


this

On a flat course, I'm killing myself to graze 20mph average over 17.5 miles, which is a regular out-and-black path I ride. Initially, I'm guessing 17-18mph will be a struggle for you, as base miles and hill training build that strength/ability up over time.
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#8176457 - 04/17/15 05:47 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: gamby
 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
I think maintaining 17-20 mph over rolling terrain is totally respectable and fairly "quick."


this

On a flat course, I'm killing myself to graze 20mph average over 17.5 miles, which is a regular out-and-black path I ride. Initially, I'm guessing 17-18mph will be a struggle for you, as base miles and hill training build that strength/ability up over time.

I've got some deadflat trails along the river shore.

I'm guessing I can mange 18mph on that at least.

I probably can't hold a crouch for an hour though.

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#8176471 - 04/17/15 06:03 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
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yea my biggest problem last year was holding a tuck for more than 15 minutes \:D
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"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


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#8176478 - 04/17/15 06:09 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Actually, when should I tuck? I tend to assume that around 20mph of airspeed) it starts to make sense(safe traffic assumed). So, I'm that doof tucked on part of his commute, but so be it. There was a nasty headwind yesterday that made me hate life.
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#8176480 - 04/17/15 06:10 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
haha I slam in there the second I'm out of a climb and/or over ~14 mph \:D

If I detect a sufficient tailwind I'll get up \:D [kinda common on my evening commute to be chased down by a ~30 mph wind] \:D
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


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#8176489 - 04/17/15 06:24 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Lucky you, I've got a 5-15mph head wind on the warmer days (desert breeze comes down the columbia, up the willamete. It's also warmer air(though by afternoon the ambient temp is up).

In the winter it's not there (or it's a mild tail wind), and it's not build up in the morning (not enough gradient?)

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#8177786 - 04/19/15 01:42 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
gamby Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 40865
Loc: RI
The headwinds around here will grind me down to 13-14mph.

This happened on the 37.5 mile ride yesterday. 19 miles out in a headwind and a slight uphill. 19 miles back at 18-22 mph, but only averaging 14.1 mph overall. Once I lose the average speed on the way out, I rarely make it up.
_________________________
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gamby

still have an EM1--go figure






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#8178674 - 04/20/15 10:54 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Supposed to be 80+ on my commute home tonight. I'm sure with a decent head wind too.


I didn't get out for a ride this weekend, there was still snow on the slopes, and too much yard work needed. And it's supposed to rain next weekend, bummer.

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#8178815 - 04/20/15 12:02 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
my new theory is that bike fit/aero positioning/aero goodies make up for all kinds of middle-age fitness deficits. \:D

https://www.strava.com/activities/288668934

official 40k TT split 1:15:51, or :33s over averaging 20.0 mph \:D

*not saying I have bike fit/aero positioning/aero goodies wired or anything, I'm just saying that I don't think I'm particularly fast but my bike is \:D
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


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#8178851 - 04/20/15 12:19 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Based on your recent race times, I think you're starting to over-do the underdog thing.

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#8185042 - 04/24/15 12:43 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



So I rode the old bike the last 2 days (grimy rainy days).

Wow that thing is a slug! I can't beleive that I ever coaxed taht thing above 20 mph.

But, now I'm noticing the inverse. Never short of breath, but my legs feel it more. I'm wondering if I'm just spinning more on new bike or what.

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#8185290 - 04/24/15 02:32 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
yea I dunno I'm a spinner on my roadbike and I tend to be a crank-er on the mtb, sounds like you're doing the same

I like to keep a solid zone 2 HR going on the roadbike so I'm around 90 rpms or so \:D
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


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#8185296 - 04/24/15 02:38 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



I was stupid and didn't get cadence on new bike. (or old).

I'm guessing that's what it is now.


Could be further because the seat is a little low on road bike.

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#8185548 - 04/24/15 05:48 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
gamby Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 40865
Loc: RI
I don't have a cadence meter--did BITD and I'm a ~90rpm guy. That's my natural cadence and I tend to stick in that area no matter what.

Low seat height will fuck your knees over time. Don't be afraid to pull over and adjust your seat mid-ride. Eventually, you'll figure out the height that works for you.

Spinning doesn't build leg strength, it builds your ability to process oxygen. That's why pros BITD had big quads--they were pushing big gears (mashing) because they were on 5-6 speed freewheels. Now, with 11-speed cassettes, pros tend to spin more--thus, they have skinny runners' legs (Wiggins/Froome).

That said, standing in the pedals and mashing some hills will build your leg strength. You'll wear your chain out faster, but you'll build leg strength.
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gamby

still have an EM1--go figure






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#8185675 - 04/24/15 08:13 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
nato2377 Online   willy_nilly
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3423
Loc: Denver, CO
no cadence meter here either
gamby pretty much nailed it. gotta spin spin spin to win. mashing only gets so far. thats why i beat a lot of guys who only use the big ring and i race mainly in the small ring

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#8185836 - 04/24/15 10:41 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
master electrician
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 15428
Loc: Canada
It's all about having them large beastly quads. Jacked legs > winning. Mash away.
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#8218270 - 05/20/15 03:45 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: robbbby]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Reading up on indoor training a little, saw this:


". If they had a power meter on the bike, they would see that pedaling at high cadences and very low or no resistance actually produces a low power output. Heart rates are high because of the lack of technique, the bouncing and flopping in the saddle and the general inability to contract their muscles quickly. Poor technique is costly in terms of calories, yet those calories don’t translate to strength, fitness, muscular endurance or aerobic endurance benefits. It would be much better to channel the effort into a higher power output by raising the resistance and slowing the legs down. As mentioned earlier, power translates directly into calories burned; heart rate is only an indirect (and often incorrect) indication of how many calories are burned in an exercise session."

Basically I'm seeing a lot of other sites saying the same thing.

In general HR/cadence definitely seem to have a connection, and that HR/watts can get skewed.
Especially if you're toward the muscular end of the spectrum(not true here, but more so than the rail thin set). Given I came from lifting/hiking, and do short commutes I'm probably not developed the fast response/control to do much cadence. Also see lack of saddle time.

The consensus is that one shouldn't over-do the cadence either, as it clearly has a point where it becomes inefficient to spin, and everybody has a diferent tolcernace. BUT, a strong rider will still develop their own range.


CN: practice my cadence, don't dwell on it.

Oh, and I've got more used to the speed/acceleration on the bike.

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#8218360 - 05/20/15 05:49 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
Risky Business Offline
Provides a Great Work Environment. he/him
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 44789
I have pretty thick legs and I am a masher, not because I want to, but like the above states I am not smooth enough at higher cadence. I generally average mid 70's on my rides now and that's after focusing on it (used to be lower before and I never come off the big ring). I can do up to 90 in comfort, but over that and I don't feel right.
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#8218390 - 05/20/15 06:30 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Risky Business]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Yeah, I think I'll work on my smoothness, but just assume that after 20 years of snowboarding I'm going to rely on my thighs a bit more than I should.

I've already noticed that I'm definitely feeling my hammies more on this bike(which is probably a mix of positioning and following through a stroke).

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#8219680 - 05/21/15 03:17 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
nato2377 Online   willy_nilly
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3423
Loc: Denver, CO
im the opposite of risky...i like riding around 90-100rpms,like you said, practice but dont dwell, different.
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#8219785 - 05/21/15 04:10 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: nato2377]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Turns out after some counting (stupid me cheaped out on no cadence on cyclometer).

I seem to be spinning on this bike, a lot. 90-105 range mostly.

That sort of confirms what I suspected. I don't think I was previously riding this way as much. It's odd I'm less inclined to mash on this bike. The smoothness probably encourages a bit of spinning, but I tried slowing down to say 70 and it felt unusual and burned more than I remember. apparently I've lose my strength.

Like I said, I've noticed I feel this bike more in my hamstrings and feel like I naturally have better following through than old bike.

/overthinking it, but just for shits and gigles

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#8219791 - 05/21/15 04:16 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
my hammies were a little funny/tight after my last 40K/TT /gotnothing
I think it was at least partially because my seat was a little too low [~0.5"]

I dont really look at power as much of a requirement [unless you're sprinting some segment??], really just stable power delivery doesnt require much power at all, just fitness

/whatdoiknow
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


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#8219827 - 05/21/15 04:46 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Pretty sure my seat is a bit low too.

I should fix that

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#8222176 - 05/23/15 11:29 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
gamby Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 40865
Loc: RI
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
Pretty sure my seat is a bit low too.

I should fix that


I promise you'll get knee issues quickly if you don't. You'll also notice a nice increase in power/efficiency when you get it to the correct height.

As for the cadence thing, I literally don't think about it. I have a specific cadence that I'm comfortable with and I just tend to stick with it automatically. I'm assuming if you put in enough miles, you'll just fall into a cadence that's right for you.
_________________________
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gamby

still have an EM1--go figure






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#8223519 - 05/26/15 12:22 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5a3C2MC87g
_________________________

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#8223982 - 05/26/15 11:57 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
The Mighty BellRacer Offline
Despises overt racism
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 05/03/00
Posts: 25818
Loc: DFW
 Originally Posted By: zakcits
*with a favorable wind [eg either a tail primarily or nuetral wind] I think I could go under 1:15 on mostly flat terrain

**in aero tuck the entire way, on zipps, aero helmet, and mostly if not completely flat terrain, lycra, etc

***while feeling like this guy the entire time:
-->https://www.facebook.com/usacycling/videos/10152817649426334/


this guy fucking cracks me up, genuine LOL

self-deprecating humor perfected.

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