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#8059721 - 01/24/15 11:54 AM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
Here's my Garmin Connect: http://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/livide

No I haven't been doing back to back long runs. I know I'm not like 100% perfect training for this and such. \:\)

The only race I absolutely want to do is Javelina, but I am also already signed up for the Cremator in July which should be interesting to do back to back 50's.

I don't necessarily want to do a 100 mile walk, but I also don't expect to go run 100 miles at any point in my life either, lol. It would be alternating running and walking, naturally. Javelina is 9.25 months away, so I think that's more than enough time to throw some other races in there. I can completely skip the Keys100 for all I care, I just thought hey it's in Florida, flat, on roads. That's exactly the race for me since that's exactly how I train, ya know? Plus, obviously, nothing trains you for running 100 miles than to run 100 miles lol.

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#8059988 - 01/24/15 05:50 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Hmmm...it says your last workout was back in July? Do we need to be friends for more recent stuff to show up?

And regarding the Cremator - I think I'd rather run 100 in one go than do 50s on consecutive days. Ugh. That's gonna be a fun one
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#8060073 - 01/24/15 07:59 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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I never did a whole lot of back to back long runs. The most was probably 17/12. What worked for me was pure volume every week...however I could get it. 6 or 7 runs a week and at my max I was around 80/wk. I did however use a progression of a fast marathon 6 months out, 50k 5 months out, 50 miler 4 months out, then my peak month (320 miles) two months out. That last month was still pretty high, but I was definitely worried that I peaked too soon. Turned out to be perfect for me since it gave my body a break from how hard I'd been pushing it.

Anyways, that doesnt really mean anything...other than to say there are multiple ways to skin a cat. You might as well rely on your coach since thats what youre paying her for. \:D
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#8060736 - 01/25/15 02:45 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
SJP0tato Offline
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Registered: 10/13/01
Posts: 814
Loc: Gilbert, Az
 Originally Posted By: Lividentity
First week of training:
So Friday was a slow 5 miles, Saturday is a slow 2 miles and Sunday is a half-marathon.

Second week of training:
Monday: Off
Tuesday: Goal is 5 miles - SPEED: Easy effort 1 mile, Ladder Intervals: 1min, 2min, 3min, 2min, 1min, hard effort, recover for equal time as interval between each, Remaining time easy effort
...


I know you've picked a coach as a guide to help you reach your goals, but someone who's placed an all-time record on a course exists in a different world than us mortals. I have a friend who's an insane runner, but her advice was worthless my first 1-1.5 years of running because she couldn't relate to my n00b situation/problems at all.

This looks like it might be the same:
coming in with 20-30 MPW running a half marathon, taking one day off, then launching directly into hard speed work? That would absolutely destroy me.
Just keep in mind she may be used to things at the "pro" level, where running 100+ mile weeks is the norm, and people have extraordinary recovery powers.

That said I hope you nail your goals. It's ambitious for sure!

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#8060834 - 01/25/15 04:26 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: SJP0tato]
2000SiRacer Offline
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I have a theory...

but in all seriousness Liza Howard has to be one of the most impressive runners in the sport. Course record and second overall at Umstead while taking pit stops to pump breast milk? Inhuman.
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#8060958 - 01/25/15 06:43 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Sir Ironpool]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
 Originally Posted By: 2000SiRacer
Hmmm...it says your last workout was back in July? Do we need to be friends for more recent stuff to show up?

And regarding the Cremator - I think I'd rather run 100 in one go than do 50s on consecutive days. Ugh. That's gonna be a fun one


Not sure? I upload all the time between biking and running. Send me a request and I'll accept it, have a couple of CSi guys on there.

 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
I never did a whole lot of back to back long runs. The most was probably 17/12. What worked for me was pure volume every week...however I could get it. 6 or 7 runs a week and at my max I was around 80/wk. I did however use a progression of a fast marathon 6 months out, 50k 5 months out, 50 miler 4 months out, then my peak month (320 miles) two months out. That last month was still pretty high, but I was definitely worried that I peaked too soon. Turned out to be perfect for me since it gave my body a break from how hard I'd been pushing it.

Anyways, that doesnt really mean anything...other than to say there are multiple ways to skin a cat. You might as well rely on your coach since thats what youre paying her for. \:D


Surprised that was your longest. I know you were running up Mt. Whitney (right?) a lot. I won't be doing vert training like you were, but I really don't need to either. I was just doing 6 days a week running training for the marathon. Right now we're starting with 5 days a week, and might move it up later, I'm unsure. I also try to bike to work as much as I can, usually 4x a week, and it is 7 miles each way. So I might incorporate running to work once a week or something to, nothing like 14 miles of transportation running a day lol.

To the point of having Liza as a coach, she's been coaching for a few years, and is coaching with Ian Sharman. There's somewhere around a 0% chance she's trolling me, unless secretly she's on this forum and knows who I am? DUNDUNDUN! Anyway, she knows my running history, PR's, goals, etc. I trust her to know what she's doing from the coaching end, assuming I hold up my side in the running. \:\)

Though, also, Liza troll picture is hilarious as Hell. I should send it to her and tell her who made it so Ian can make you run a few extra miles. :P

It was so funny to talk to her on Skype, I'm just some dweeb who wants to run 100 miles and she's like a God lol. For a normal person its like meeting your favorite band and then having them help you learn how to play guitar lol.

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#8064448 - 01/27/15 06:44 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
Did my first "real" run for the coaching. 2 slow recovery runs don't really count. Did a ladder style speed workout. 1 mile easy followed by 1, 2, 3, 2 and 1 minute hard efforts. All the hard efforts were between 5:30-6:30 pace. Thought that was pretty good, my legs weren't even 100% to start off with so thought this went really well. Ended at 5 miles total. Looking forward to tomorrow just being a 7 mile recovery run.
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#8065982 - 01/28/15 03:31 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
Ampsman in Extremis Offline
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Is she giving any point of reference for your hard efforts? Or are you just going balls out?
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#8066364 - 01/28/15 07:43 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Ampsman in Extremis]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
It just said hard effort, I am going to ask her when I Skype with her next week. I threw it into an email but she didn't answer it, probably overlooked it with the other stuff. The pace I did that was pretty much balls out, my 5k PR is 21:09, so this is a bit faster than that even.
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#8067007 - 01/29/15 10:34 AM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



yeah, that seems a bit too balls-out.
From what I've read there's not much point going faster than your 5k when you're training for multi-hour runs.

Careful not to over-do this man. Not being able to run sucks.

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#8067339 - 01/29/15 12:26 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: ]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
Yeah. Well the first couple weeks will be partially me figuring some stuff out, as I'd expect.

I did a slow 7 mile run last night, and was going almost too slow, was hitting 11-13 minute miles. I was pretty much just spacing out listening to an URP podcast. She said to go 60-90 seconds slower than HM pace, slower if it isn't easy. So I kind of overdid the "easy" part I think, lol. But, hey, feel good today! Going to be doing some hill repeats which should be fun.

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#8067369 - 01/29/15 12:42 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
Design Offline
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Registered: 12/11/02
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I have one run a week I do with coworkers at that pace. It's honestly my favorite run of the week. Aren't the purpose of the slower/easier runs just to prevent the muscles from seizing up with the increased mileage? I'm kinda new to them so thought I'd ask.
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#8067421 - 01/29/15 01:08 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Design]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
I guess the problem is people do their slow runs too fast and their fast runs too slow. Mentally I don't want to go do 12-13 min miles because it feels too slow, but if I go out and do 9-10 min miles that will make my legs more sore so when I do speed work I can't do it as hard. Just something you have to get used to.
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#8067460 - 01/29/15 01:26 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
stickaz_old Offline
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I started doing my slow runs around 10:00/10:30 mile pace, I thought I started finally making some improvements in my aerobic system when I did that. No idea tho. Of course I'm not trying to run 100 miles lol
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#8067593 - 01/29/15 02:20 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: stickaz_old]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
Yeah when my legs feel good that would be my slow pace area, I can do an 8min/mile for a half, so that 10min/mile pace would be good for recovery days. That's probably more along the lines of what I'll shoot for in the future, I was just not paying attention last night.
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#8067669 - 01/29/15 02:46 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: zakcits
I started doing my slow runs around 10:00/10:30 mile pace, I thought I started finally making some improvements in my aerobic system when I did that. No idea tho. Of course I'm not trying to run 100 miles lol

Faster (to a point) is more aerobic developing.

Slower/longer is tolerance building (i.e legs, joints, and in some cases lactic build up)

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#8068455 - 01/30/15 12:10 AM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
Ampsman in Extremis Offline
I PITY THE FOOL!
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Registered: 04/10/00
Posts: 15463
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 Originally Posted By: Lividentity
Yeah. Well the first couple weeks will be partially me figuring some stuff out, as I'd expect.

I did a slow 7 mile run last night, and was going almost too slow, was hitting 11-13 minute miles. I was pretty much just spacing out listening to an URP podcast. She said to go 60-90 seconds slower than HM pace, slower if it isn't easy. So I kind of overdid the "easy" part I think, lol. But, hey, feel good today! Going to be doing some hill repeats which should be fun.


You were doing hard efforts as fast as 5:30 pace and easy runs at 11-13?
As a coach that should raise a red flag, you need to get your pace dialed in before she has you doing these workouts.
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#8068652 - 01/30/15 08:27 AM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Ampsman in Extremis]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
Yeah, well this is the first week of doing this stuff, so I sent her the pace chart and such from Garmin so that'll help get it paced better. Also, my easy stuff was me being overly slow, I really should have been doing 9-10 for the easy stuff.
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#8069216 - 01/30/15 01:31 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
stickaz_old Offline
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Registered: 02/04/01
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I'm super proud of you OP and look forward to hearing how you do. Just finishing any of these things (or coming close) is a ginormo accomplishment IMHO. Kudos
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#8069314 - 01/30/15 02:28 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 42801
Loc: Colorado
 Originally Posted By: Lividentity
 Originally Posted By: 2000SiRacer
Hmmm...it says your last workout was back in July? Do we need to be friends for more recent stuff to show up?

And regarding the Cremator - I think I'd rather run 100 in one go than do 50s on consecutive days. Ugh. That's gonna be a fun one


Not sure? I upload all the time between biking and running. Send me a request and I'll accept it, have a couple of CSi guys on there.


Request sent! I'm afraid it's not a fair exchange of information as my last activity was December 16, 2011 but hopefully this lets me see your most recent training.

And in other ultra news I'm on my way up to Huntsville State Park in beautiful Huntsville, TX to crew this guy at Rocky Raccoon again.



He has a checkered history with this race but we're all hoping this is the year he has a strong run in a big way. He has the speed to run mid-teens but he DNF'd one year due to hypothermia, another year he finished in around 28 hours with food poisoning (he took a long nap after the first lap) and then last year he DNF'd with nausea and vomiting after running in 4th place for the first 40-50 miles. He's got the speed - low 2:30s marathon, 6:26 50 miler on trails - but he's never put it all together for a solid 100. Fingers crossed for this weekend!

Bonus points for crewing a guy who could conceivably finish in time for me to get a full night's sleep. He could've finished last year but he's at a point where he'd rather drop and save himself than walk in a 20+ hour finish at this race.

/end threadjack
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#8069322 - 01/30/15 02:31 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
Lol I got the connection email and was like who the hell is this? I checked here and sure enough its from here, lol.

FYI, Liza Howard is going to be at Rocky as well, I actually didn't check if she's running it or pacing/crewing, but she'll be there somewhere. \:\)

That's awesome that you're crewing. You posted him before right? He looks familiar from last year or something, you and a few guys ran something and he was one?

Hope it goes well and he kicks its ass!

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#8069349 - 01/30/15 02:44 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 42801
Loc: Colorado
Oooh, I'll be on the lookout for Liza and I'll be sure to tell her how much trash you've been talking about your easy schedule and how you expected more intervals

And yeah, his name's Matt Urbanski and I'm good friends with him and his wife and little brother (Matt and I were just in his wedding in November). God, at this point we've done: Leadville 2012, Ice Age 2013, Land Between the Lakes 2013, Rocky Raccoon 2014 and Run Rabbit Run 2014 together. This year we have Rocky Raccoon, Squamish and Run Rabbit Run together - but look for him at Western States in June. Lucky SOB got into the race with a single lottery ticket.
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#8069363 - 01/30/15 02:50 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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Registered: 03/12/01
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Fuck that guy!
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#8069380 - 01/30/15 02:56 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: stickaz_old]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
Haha, yes, make sure to tell her I want tons more speed work. :P

But that's awesome man, have a good weekend!

 Originally Posted By: zakcits
I'm super proud of you OP and look forward to hearing how you do. Just finishing any of these things (or coming close) is a ginormo accomplishment IMHO. Kudos


Meant to say thanks for saying this. I'll be updating plenty and also have numerous months of some hard ass training to get there. \:\)

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#8077693 - 02/04/15 03:35 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
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Loc: Colorado
Liza had a gutsy race this weekend. She was struggling hard and it didn't help that Nicole Studer was just some kind of world record setting monster. Anyway, kudos to her for gutting it out in second
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#8077724 - 02/04/15 03:45 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
Yeah I emailed her and said congrats, sub 16 is awesome! And Ian smashed the race apparently, he was probably driving a damn race car out there. I'm talking to her tonight for my second Skype session to setup the next 2 weeks of training, looking forward to it!

Also, yesterday was 7 mile speed work:

SPEED: Easy effort 1 mile then 4x4s: 4 x (4minutes moderate-hard effort then 4 minutes easy) Try to keep the 4 minute effort at 1/2MP - 10 seconds

I need to have my gps watch show my current pace so I can do a better job of holding my 4 minutes hard near the same effort. My first 4 mins were all over, and then the final 3 were much better.

Enjoying the training and different runs so far though. It is fun and gives me a lot of motivation to go do it! Tonight is an easy 5 miles, that's like a gift lol.

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#8077812 - 02/04/15 04:35 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Yeah, it was a fun race to watch. This super stud D1 cross country guy came out and was just dominating at the start. Ran like a 2:18 and 2:21 the first two laps. He had 30 minutes on Ian at the beginning of lap three (miles 40-60) but Ian caught him by mile 50 and said he was walking while talking on his phone. Game over to the surprise of nobody there.

Frankly I was glad this guy blew up. He was super cocky. Even booked an 8:00am flight home on Monday (26 hours into the race). His dad was at the start/finish giving him Snickers bars sandwiched between Clif bars. No doubt the guy is super fast but after one 50K (which he ran in like 3:0X) he still wasn't ready for 100 miles and just tanked hard.

And on the good news front - my buddy Matt ran his best 100 miler to date and 4th 100 mile finish overall. Ran 16:26 - 18th overall and 8th USATF male. He was on pace to run 14:45ish until the last lap when things went sideways on him but overall a great race and a huge drop in the distance PR (previously was a lackluster for him 23:XX at Leadville)

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#8078013 - 02/04/15 07:30 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
Haha, cocky jackass gets what's coming to him is awesome. And man your buddy smashed that race! 7 hour PR? Wow... I'm sure that just makes him want to go sub 16 right? ;\)
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#8079120 - 02/05/15 01:16 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
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Loc: Colorado
 Originally Posted By: Lividentity
Haha, cocky jackass gets what's coming to him is awesome. And man your buddy smashed that race! 7 hour PR? Wow... I'm sure that just makes him want to go sub 16 right? ;\)


He's certainly capable of sub-15 at his current fitness levels. That 7-hour PR was only because his other races have all been shitty in some way or another. One he did with food poisoning, one he fell apart and slept in a car for awhile and then Leadville he just went into it in mediocre shape, no real training, and still did 23:XX.

And yes, I was not so secretly amused to see that D1 guy blow up in epic fashion. There's another guy who was running in second for the first two laps who dropped. He did the exact same thing last year and talking to people we got the impression that he runs tons of races in Texas and his MO is to go out hard and lead the race until he blows up and then he drops out and just hangs around the finish line having a good time the rest of the day
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#8079190 - 02/05/15 02:00 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
Lol well I guess that's one way to do it. Though I'd think you'd want to actually finish the race, at least one year, right?

Liza said she was happy with how she performed, because she's been injured to a degree for the past few months and only had 1 50mile week in the past 3 months, lol. Sub 16 with that training is nuts.

Still excited and positive about my training. It is going well and even did my hill speed work today in pouring rain, lol.

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#8079565 - 02/05/15 04:20 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
2000SiRacer Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Lividentity
It is going well and even did my hill speed work today in pouring rain, lol.


I was going to ask: where does one do hill work in Florida? parking garage? bridge/overpass? Then I remembered we're Garmin friends...40' repeats up a bridge! Just looking at the map of that made me cringe. Good mental toughness training for sure
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#8079640 - 02/05/15 05:14 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
Yeah I was going to try out a man made hill that I've never run at, however, it is all just ground. So with the pouring rain, I decided that it would be a disaster there, lol.

You just do what you gotta do, right? Running up a bridge is far from the best, but it is what I have. I kind of wish it had a higher incline. The man made hill nearby does have a higher incline, but it also is really short.

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#8079692 - 02/05/15 05:53 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
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Loc: Colorado
 Originally Posted By: Lividentity
Yeah I was going to try out a man made hill that I've never run at, however, it is all just ground. So with the pouring rain, I decided that it would be a disaster there, lol.

You just do what you gotta do, right? Running up a bridge is far from the best, but it is what I have. I kind of wish it had a higher incline. The man made hill nearby does have a higher incline, but it also is really short.


Former garbage heap? What kind of climb is it?

And kudos to you for making the best of a tough situation. It's all in what's around you - you'll be perfectly prepared for Keys while a flat pavement race like that would destroy me in 50 miles.

You might appreciate this though - I had a 45 minute recovery run scheduled two weeks ago and it was real wet out so I just ran up a dirt road that's usually pretty dry. 25 minutes up, 20 minutes down at a comfortable pace and I was completely stunned to see 883' of vert at the end of it
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#8079844 - 02/05/15 07:05 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Lividentity Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
It is called the Celery Fields, because they used to grow celery there, lol. It is now a park of sorts. I walked around once, the hill is really steep but I doubt would take but 15 seconds to run up.

I'm hoping to be prepared for Keys. \:\) As long as I show up fit I think I'll be ok.

So 45 mins of running with under 1k of vert is flat for you right? ;\) I'd love to do some running out on real trails, like in CO, WY, CA, etc. You guys are mad lucky to have that stuff right at hand. If I end the year and do Javelina I will put in for Western next year, though I have NO idea how I'd train for that kind of vert, lol. Endless treadmill days? =[

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#8080082 - 02/05/15 10:16 PM Re: My road to ultras starts tonight. v. running blog (get it?) [Re: Lividentity]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Registered: 04/19/02
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Loc: Colorado
That's not such a bad hill for Florida!



Flatlanders manage to do well at mountain races all the time. God knows how they do it but I imagine gym equipment is a big factor.

This one has me worried even though I have vert around me:



It's crazy to think that it's totally likely that each one of those two early climbs takes two hours of nonstop hill work to get over. I wish I had Ironmom's massive thigh motors to help me over

EDIT: and I still think I'd fare better at 4,000'+ climbs at 13,000' than trying to run an ultra on pavement. Don't know how you guys do it!


Edited by 2000SiRacer (02/05/15 10:17 PM)
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