there are both advertised and unadvertised manufacturer rebates

your starting point should be invoice minus any advertised rebates


of course this depends on the model you're after... hot cars don't need to be discounted as heavily because the next buyer will come along fast.


what car?

+1

yeah the dealer will always have incentives from the manufacturer for selling certain models more than others, those usually get passed onto the customer...so hopefully you're buying one of those models.

hopefully the dlr "invoice" price they're starting you with is of course lower than msrp (again will depend on the model and how 'hot' it is, or if it's clearance/etc). always try to get rebates stacked on top of one another from your starting price.

dlr's are independently owned (except benz), so you can get different invoice price per dealer. it can help to know/trust someone working at teh dealer when buying, but not always a must.

dlr's don't make a lot on new cars honestly, it's service that makes them $$$ (and parts+accessories sales). cheaper cars bring in less than higher end models of course...if i showed you what a dealer makes selling a Honda Fit you'd laugh lol.

^lol, that i have no idea brah, i don't deal with sales side. :P

what car?

My mother in law drives a VW Jetta

She currently drives a honda and i'd prefer if she got another but she said the fit was too small

Do NOT buy a fucking VW.

I don't drive shit anymore, all work from home

That being said, it's just like any other car, it's got it's quirks but with my experiences I'd always recommend one. Some people hate them, some people love them.

It seems like every time we see a picture of that Jetta, it's on the back of a tow truck.

I owned a 2001 GTI 1.8T for 9.5 years. Seriously nothing crazy went on the car, everything was wear and tear parts and maintenance. Maybe your MIL's Jetta 1.8T was a lemon or EUE?

This goes out to whoever complains VW is shit. dat electrical problem, Bosch parts!

I am sure Bill can talk about his MKIV Jetta ownership, that dude drives like 50K a year

It's a 2002 1.8T that she bought brand new and did all regular maintenance, it has like 165k.

The automatic tranny is the biggest issue, I've talked to Bill about it many times, it's a lost cause on this car. The transmission is a piece of shit, I will spare you the details.

A rear spring broke, HOW THE FUCK DOES A SPRING BREAK? This was like 5 years ago, is that a wear and tear item on a low mileage car that's rustproofed?

Blows coil packs every 6 months or so, piece of shit, now i've converted her to a vwvortex troll and she drives around with spare coil packs in trunk...regular maintenance right?

The interior has not held up well, wow what a piece of shit. The "leather" the cushioning, just everything is completely trashed and we are talking about a 5'1 woman that's like 110 lbs driving this.

Constant fucking changing of light bulbs, this one is my favourite honestly, regular maintenance to change fucking light bulbs monthly.

On second set of hood shocks now, shock mounts are under engineered, they keep failing, power brakes don't always work, shit rattles, glovebox doesn't close, doesn't pull as hard as it used to, I am not even going to get into that. Waiting for the car to be written off or something.

I don't even remember half of it as I told her I am not dealing with that shit again...there is a CEL always, I don't know what it is at this point.

The only positive is they are built like tanks.

I The transmission is a piece of shit, I will spare you the details.

Blows coil packs every 6 months or so, piece of shit

The interior has not held up well, wow what a piece of shit.

when you figure out the exact models and trims you're shopping let me know what they are.

the interior on the mkiv is pretty shit durability wise.

Not really..

yes really. its shit

Compared to what else in its segment? And please don't say Honda

Without being a euphoric an EG/EK honda interior is like 100000000x better than mk4 jetta/golf in terms of longevity, rattles, etc. This is not even for debate, vw interior is utter shit. Might as well drive on a milk crate wrapped in burlap. No joke, cushioning is shit, leather/pleather/feather/wahteverthefuckeather is all cracked, nikraz please. None of my civics ever fell apart like a pos VW

Your Civics were tin cans, lined with hard plastic wrapped around lawnmower engines.

Such luxury! Just admit, you hate your moms car because she asks you to work on it

I have zero issue admitting that the mk4 jetta/golf structurally feel significantly sturdier...but this is like a 4age review of "feelz" on sturdiness which is irrelevant to real life application. While an EG/EK civic may not *feel* as sturdy they were built so much better (and are plenty sturdy for real life), and i can't emphasize or quantify *how much better* they are than a piece of shit vw of an era a decade ahead. I'd like to give the VW more credit, but I can't, and I consider myself a pretty fair person when it comes to honest reviews. TO me it's laughable that I can take a 1992 hatchback now 22 years later and put it up against a 12 year old dub and walk away feeling completely appalled by the vw in every imaginable way, AND i gave it a 10 year advantage, like wtf.

btw i just remembered half of my MIL radio buttons have fallen off randomly as well...those are regular maintenance as well right ? such quality

I have zero issue admitting that the mk4 jetta/golf structurally feel significantly sturdier...but this is like a 4age review of "feelz" on sturdiness which is irrelevant to real life application. While an EG/EK civic may not *feel* as sturdy they were built so much better (and are plenty sturdy for real life), and i can't emphasize or quantify *how much better* they are than a piece of shit vw of an era a decade ahead. I'd like to give the VW more credit, but I can't, and I consider myself a pretty fair person when it comes to honest reviews. TO me it's laughable that I can take a 1992 hatchback now 22 years later and put it up against a 12 year old dub and walk away feeling completely appalled by the vw in every imaginable way, AND i gave it a 10 year advantage, like wtf.

btw i just remembered half of my MIL radio buttons have fallen off randomly as well...those are regular maintenance as well right ? such quality

I've got like a million kms inside MKIVs behind a tow truck

Didn't you own a Neon?

lel wut? really? VW interior is that bad? wow. the only interior issue I have in my 7th gen civic is the rocking drivers seat, but i need to fix it before I drock myself to sleep while driving. Despite of what euphoric says about the 7th gen civic, but my civic has been rock solid for a 2003 car.

Vas is disgruntled. I've got like a million kms inside MKIVs, I don't know where some of these guys come up with this shit

Mazda just came up with unlimited mile warranty on 2015 and up...

Mazdas are rust machines.

It's unlimited mileage.
Still 3-5 yrs

Same here, I owned for for 9.5 years and have a lot of friends with MKIV since 2000.

I really think it's the car that Vas MIL owns or EUE. Go on Vortex, I never seen people complain about the interior and buttons falling out of the radio.

Well mind you, I upgraded to the Blaupunkt aftermarket deck 3 months after I bought the car. But other than the driver's door handle is peeling due to wear and tear, I really don't have much complaint of stuffs falling out/breaking

Also the famous driver side seat buckle problem. SRS light is always on and my buckle doesn't like to lock the seatbelt when I buckle. I have to wiggle it 10+ times before it locked itself in place

I called the dealer for a quote on a new buckle. $299+HST

Fuck Honda

Does it have to be a '14?

$7k off msrp for the remaining '14s

that's what I said, she wanted black.

she wanted black.