#7831271 - 08/23/14 06:21 PM
What's a 5D2 go for these days?
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tylerdurden
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Registered: 03/31/02
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Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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After my trip to Norway and Iceland (still going through those), I basically had it with the AF on the 5D2. Even with MFA, there's just no telling exactly where the AF point grabbed unless you go to live view, which is great but works like shit outdoors during the day. Decided I needed something with an EVF and rented an A7R and bought an XT1 (with the VG, 18-55, 23, and 27), as I thought I preferred the Fuji just from fooling around with them at the store. Turns out I was wrong. It only took a few days to figure out I liked the Sony more. Both have great sensors, but the Sony is definitely the winner in terms of IQ. The shadow recovery is amazing and the noise was better too, though above about ISO 400 the shadow noise makes shadow recovery much less useful. Fuji had great color SOOC, but it wasn't anything you couldn't do in post.
Ergos on both are rather poor compared to a full size DSLR. I wish I could put the guts of the Sony in my Canon. There's just no reason to have them be so small. The strap lug on the grip side of the 7R puts it right where your shutter finger goes (which operates at least three critical buttons/switches), no idea what they were thinking. I guess I'll need a strap that attaches to the tripod plate. I got the VG for the Sony too when I bought it, otherwise your pinky just hangs off the bottom with nothing to grab on to.
While I liked the Fuji, there were things that bugged me. Auto ISO was stupid compared to even my years-old 5D2 and changing ISO requires you to press the button on the center of the dial. On the Sony, which has an auto ISO not much better, I have it set to the rear dial, which is very easy and fast to adjust. I also found the MF aids less useful on the Fuji. You have to set the magnification area before zooming, whereas the Sony lets you move it while zoomed in. I also found, despite both having basically identical pixel counts on the EVF and rear screen, focus pops really well on the Sony but not so much on the Fuji. On the Sony, I know I have focus nailed, and it's almost as quick to manually focus as it is to autofocus. Scratch that, it's faster since I have an adapter to use all my Canon lenses. AF works on all but one lens, but it's godawful slow and not particularly reliable.
I also really like the zebra feature on the Sony (rolling diagonal lines to show clipped channels), you can basically set your aperture for DOF, adjust the zebras till you don't have any clipped highlights, then adjust the ISO if needed and shoot. Recover shadows in post and it's about as close to single frame HDR as you're going to get. I love the control customization too, that's a real upgrade from the Canon. Overall I'm getting used to this body very quickly and loving the resolution and shadow detail. For the kind of shooting I do, the piss poor AF isn't an issue, and being able to preview exposure and focus in the EVF, which obviously works in any light, is a game changer. The shutter sounds like shit and the eyecup is hard as a rock and the grip is stupid small, but I love the thing. Plus, this way I get to keep all my old lenses, which I would have needed to sell to fund a Fuji system. If Canon ever pulls their head out of their ass and makes an FF with an EVF, it'll be an easy transition back.
So anyway, I have a 5D2 now that I probably won't use, but would you sell it? I think I could get a least a grand for it, but would you keep it anyway?
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#7831359 - 08/23/14 08:40 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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Nate047
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Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 28558
Loc: La La Land, CA
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A7R is the same sensor as a D800. D800 has none of the ergonomic issues that the Sony has. D800 has better lens options. D800.
In case you didn't catch my drift... Get a fucking D800.
Nate
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#7831412 - 08/23/14 09:30 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Nate047]
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tylerdurden
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Registered: 03/31/02
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Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Yeah, but EVF.
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#7831413 - 08/23/14 09:34 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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tylerdurden
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Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Also, given the adapter situation, I'm not sure any single system has better lens options than Sony ATM.
But you're right, a proper DSLR is *much* preferable to the tiny mirrorless bodies now. And I'm not even a giant, some of these bodies might be literally unusable for those of you with sausage fingers.
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#7831516 - 08/23/14 11:20 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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Nate047
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Registered: 03/03/03
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Loc: La La Land, CA
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They are just not usable by anyone who cares about ergonomics. It's shit. You shouldn't have to "get used" to something that bad. And yea, electronic viewfinders are cool I guess but that's not a selling point in my mind.
Nate
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#7831528 - 08/23/14 11:38 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Nate047]
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tylerdurden
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Registered: 03/31/02
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Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Nailing focus every time is a selling point.
If there were an alternative, I'd look into it. But there isn't.
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#7832486 - 08/24/14 10:01 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: flyEX #1]
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tenplanescrashing
tenplanescrashing
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Or you guys could just switch over to the right side with a D610 or D810
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#7832615 - 08/25/14 12:00 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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Nate047
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Registered: 03/03/03
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Nailing focus every time is a selling point. If there were an alternative, I'd look into it. But there isn't.
You're not even listening because I know you don't' want to buy new glass and spend the $$$ for a D800 or 810. But that is your alternative right there. So, "pay to play" I guess?
FWIW the D800 files are as good under work as $40,000 MFD files... Only difference being a few k pixels in dimension which 90% of the time you don't need. Unless you're shooting 50 story Apple billboards on Wilshire. And the 800E is now like $2300. Math isn't my strong point, buuuuut...
Nate
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#7832636 - 08/25/14 12:43 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Nate047]
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tylerdurden
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Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Nailing focus every time is a selling point. If there were an alternative, I'd look into it. But there isn't. You're not even listening because I know you don't' want to buy new glass and spend the $$$ for a D800 or 810. But that is your alternative right there. So, "pay to play" I guess? FWIW the D800 files are as good under work as $40,000 MFD files... Only difference being a few k pixels in dimension which 90% of the time you don't need. Unless you're shooting 50 story Apple billboards on Wilshire. And the 800E is now like $2300. Math isn't my strong point, buuuuut... Nate
Does the 810 include telepathic AF? If not, I still very much like checking critical focus at the sensor in the viewfinder . . .
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#7834285 - 08/26/14 01:07 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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tylerdurden
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Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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It's $400, but your point still stands. I'm fine with it overall though, I'd probably lose way more than $400 selling all my lenses to switch to native E mount glass. As far as the size goes, have you spent much time with an A7? I didn't like the balance of it without the VG given that it uses FF lenses which can often have a bit of heft to them. The grip helps quite a bit.
One problem solved, BTW, a Nikon DK-19 eye cup can be stretched over the hard plastic POS the camera comes with and makes the EVF quite comfy to use. Joby strap is en route, if that works the only thing I'll have to complain about is the slow AF, which I don't really care about to be honest.
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#7841617 - 08/30/14 09:06 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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Sir Salty A F
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Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 15608
Loc: Utah
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I posted in the pic a day thread, but I guess it is more at home here.
Got rid of the 5d2.. Picked up the A7r with a $25 Fotodiox adapter. It's full manual, but very solid all metal with a tripod mount which helps balance the system out by changing the center of gravity on a tripod.
The downside is since my canon lenses don't have an external aperture ring, they default to wide open. My rokinon has one, so I can use all the features full manual. I might at some point spend the $$ on the metabones.. I'll play with this one for a bit.
Man, the 5d2 was soooo familiar in my hands I could basically make all my adjustments without looking at the camera. It seems like a lot of settings are buried in menus and submenus which makes adjustments a lot slower, for now.
The battery takes FOREVER to charge and seems to dissipate pretty quickly.
Can't wait to get some shutter clicks on it.
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#7841926 - 08/31/14 09:03 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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tylerdurden
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Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Bewm. I agree that it doesn't quite feel right in the hand, the VG helps. Don't put a regular strap on it, the lug placement means if you have something attached your finger has a hard time operating the shutter and front controls. I got a Joby Pro Sling and it seems like a winner. I prefer just a hand strap, but I tried that and it really fucks up your access to the shutter.
As far as controls being where you want them, I think you'll find it pretty good once you customize everything. I have DOF preview on c1, focus peaking level to c2, zebra settings to c3 (I usually have them on but sometimes manual focus is hard with them on), and focus magnifier on AF/MF button (this one falls right under my thumb and is probably my most used button other than the shutter). I keep ISO on the rear wheel (the one around the button), some people think it's too easy to change by accident but I haven't had any trouble. Battery life is indeed not great, I have the VG though so I've got two batteries to go through. You may want to switch off the monitor and just use the EVF to save on battery if you don't get the VG. I also got a couple spare batteries and a wall charger from Amazon for $30, called Wasabi Power or something.
You're gonna love that sensor man, it really shines on the type stuff you post here. Use exposure comp and the zebras to make sure you're not clipping, adjust aperture for desired DOF, then ISO if you need to hand hold it. Bump exposure and shadows if needed in post and you have about nine stops of DR, and the noise, if you have any, is more film like than any sensor I've shot with. Pretty dope, I'm about to fly up to Banff and Jasper this morning, will hopefully have stuff to post from there and and from Iceland/Norway in the next month.
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#7841928 - 08/31/14 09:05 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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tylerdurden
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Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Oh, and I see you're USB charging it. Fuck that, get the Amazon wall charger and spares, it takes hardly any time in comparison. The only thing I would use the USB for is if I had a USB battery pack and wanted to charge in the field.
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#7842041 - 08/31/14 11:30 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: ewraven]
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tylerdurden
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Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Yeah, the legit Sony batteries do last longer, but at $50 a pop, I'd rather carry more of the cheap spares.
As far as assigning buttons, it is a different world from the 5D2, but in the end I like it better once everything is set up to your liking. The manual isn't very good, there are a few threads out there on A7R setup that I spent a few hours looking at. I'm still tweaking some settings, but I'm pretty happy as it sits now.
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#7842052 - 08/31/14 11:48 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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chef
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Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 23758
Loc: The OC
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Oh man custom button settings are where it's at! The downside is that I can't hand my camera to someone without explaining how to use it. Which is also usually a good thing.
It's no d800 but at least the sensor manufacturer is the same!
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#7842056 - 08/31/14 11:51 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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Sir Salty A F
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Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 15608
Loc: Utah
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Post some of those links if you don't mind
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#7842268 - 08/31/14 04:17 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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scootergeek
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Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46248
Loc: East of St. Louis
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As far as assigning buttons, it is a different world from the 5D2,
You can't reassign the buttons on the 5D2?
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#7842519 - 08/31/14 08:41 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: scootergeek]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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As far as assigning buttons, it is a different world from the 5D2,
You can't reassign the buttons on the 5D2?
There are a few that you could tweak the function of, but nowhere the extent of cameras these days.
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#7842546 - 08/31/14 09:03 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Oh, and if the hard eye cup bothers you as much as it does me, this thing is amazing:
Sorry for the cruddy pic, I'm posting from a hotel in Banff. Nikon DK-19, it just stretches over the existing hard eye cup and is deep and comfy. Cheap too. Until Sony comes out with something else (hell, maybe even if they do), this is a great ergonomic fix.
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#7842661 - 08/31/14 11:22 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Yep. I was convinced I would like the Fuji more so I bought it and just rented the Sony to make sure I wasn't making a mistake and it didn't take very long to realize I liked the Sony more. Returned the Fuji and bought the A7R soon after with the VG and the Metabones MkIV.
As far as the VG goes, I won't try and persuade you, but I hated not having a place for my pinky and, given the Sony uses all my Canon lenses, trimming a smidge of weight isn't really noticeable. If that was my ultimate concern I'd have kept the Fuji.
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#7843520 - 09/01/14 10:53 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Yeah, peaking is OK for smaller apertures and wider focal lengths, but it's not to be trusted IMO (it trips up on any high contrast area, whether or not it's in focus). How does the Fotodiox work with the aperture? I know I've used some non-Canon extension tubes and you select the desired aperture with the lens mounted directly on the camera, push down the DOF preview, then dismount the lens while pressing the DOF preview to get whatever aperture you wanted on the extension tube. But it doesn't seem like this would work for you as you don't have a Canon body to stop it down on anymore, not to mention that's a heinously tedious process.
I really recommend the Metabones. FWIW, I used my 24 IS at 1/8 today and it was tack sharp, which never happened on my 5D2 (IS lenses typically had a pretty poor keeper rate on that body). No idea why that would be, but it was really helpful today. Still loving my adapted A7R.
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#7843525 - 09/01/14 10:58 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Oh, and I recommend setting the magnifier to the AF/MF button, it falls right under your thumb. Once you hit it, the orange box pops up, and you can use the front and back wheels to rapidly move the box (one moves it up and down, the other moves it left and right, the directional arrows on the thumb wheel are slow), then hit the MF/AF button again to go to 7.2x which is where I actually confirm focus (going to the 14.4x magnification is useless IMO), then hit the shutter halfway to go back to full view again. It's a pretty quick process with some practice. Hit me up if you want some more tips!
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#7843557 - 09/01/14 11:28 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Just checked a few from today, still amazed by the latitude of the sensor. It's fucking fantastic, and the detail without the AA filter makes me want to lick my screen. Get the Metabones dude. You're hampered without it.
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#7843826 - 09/02/14 10:16 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Well, given there's no mirror, no.
Sorry for being pedantic, but no, shutter slap for me has been a non-issue. I rarely shoot longer lenses though where it seems to be most prevalent. I shot some with my 70-200 yesterday but there was enough light to keep speeds up around 1/500, and even if I were to shoot as speeds where I'd need a tripod, the lens has it's own foot which should act against the slap. Vibration seems to be worst with longer lenses that don't have their own tripod foot.
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#7844320 - 09/02/14 02:37 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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Sir Salty A F
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Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 15608
Loc: Utah
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#7844403 - 09/02/14 03:25 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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chef
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 23758
Loc: The OC
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This thread makes me want to hug my D700 and its lovely AF. And what about the zebras in your D700's OVF? i wouldn't want to speak for scootergeek, but my d700's AF is accurate enough that I don't manually focus
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#7844656 - 09/02/14 06:14 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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I find it a bit hard to distinguish highlight with detail vs highlight without detail on the EVF, but to each their own.
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#7844676 - 09/02/14 06:32 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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tylerdurden
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Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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100+ shows actual clipping. I agree that it's not a replacement for bracketing for many situations though, just maximizes dynamic range if you can't or don't need to.
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#7845628 - 09/03/14 11:04 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: scootergeek]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Or simply go against internet wisdom and shoot 1/3 to 2/3 of a stop to the left all the time.
You still need to check the display to confirm exposure after. With an EVF, you confirm it before exposure. It's not that much of a time saver but it is more convenient than pulling the camera away from your face.
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#7845629 - 09/03/14 11:04 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Not with a mark 2!!! Shadow recovery bloooooooowwwsss
Yes. Ugly noise in there often times.
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#7845915 - 09/03/14 01:19 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: tylerdurden]
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skierd
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Registered: 08/21/01
Posts: 9104
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
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Lol yeah, that's another thing.. I'm shooting wide open (f4 with that lens). I THINK I can hook it up to a canon body, set aperture (I'd go f9 for landscape) and turn off the body and it should stay at F9 on the sony.
Or I'll just buy the metabones lol.
That sounds like a giant pain in the ass honestly. Get the damn adapter, good manual focus lenses with aperture rings, or native lenses.
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#7846157 - 09/03/14 03:35 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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chef
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Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 23758
Loc: The OC
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Ohh that's right. I'm thinking the wrong blinkies/lines. I don't trust my lcd's. I know the d300s and d700 were too bright. The d800 is a little better but I'm still learning it. The d800 is different enough that I have to go by the histogram, even if the image onscreen looks completely wrong. That may have been from me dialing down the lcd brightness though, based off past experience with other bodies. I heard a guy that's one of the Nikon ambassadors say in a (2 year old) podcast that the histograms shown are for the jpg files that are shown on the lcd. It gets you close I guess but still shows it's different than what I'll be playing with when I get back home. Anyways, live view histogram would be useful, but I'll live without it for the other features I get in a full size body without the EVF.
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Why choose mac? "Well, huh, might as, might as well ask why is a tree good? Why is the sunset good? Why are boobs good?" RRLSi "put that money into a new imac damn it. it's the bomb" jsmonet "This all fuckin' day. Feel the 900MB/sec of glory. It's like a digital money shot all over your face." RRLSi Order my photo prints (New files uploaded)
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#7846785 - 09/04/14 12:05 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: chef]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Had a pretty good day out at Moraine Lake and Lake Louise today, did my first bracketed shots, we'll see how they go in post (I almost never did this with the 5D2). Really wish there was a drive option for five shots at one stop increments, but doing two separate brackets of three at one stop works more or less as well and is pretty quick. Side note, loving the Joby strap. Still wish a hand strap would work, but this thing is a well thought out piece of kit.
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#7847072 - 09/04/14 09:48 AM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: Sir Salty A F]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Nope, it's on a tripod obviously and it doesn't take too hard a poke to release the shutter so I wasn't worried about it. We'll see in post I guess lol whoops.
The remote app works well enough that I probably wouldn't use any other remote release, have you tried it?
I agree that there are a number of small firmware tweaks that could really improve functionality, we'll see if they ever do an update.
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#7848476 - 09/04/14 10:50 PM
Re: What's a 5D2 go for these days?
[Re: skierd]
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tylerdurden
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 25862
Loc: Shyea, like I'm telling you
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Other than having the canon lens already, any reason you're not looking at any of the e mount glass instead of buying an adapter? Isn't there a zeiss/sony equivalent to that 24-70 f4?
Most of the E mount stuff is pretty underwhelming, zooms especially don't measure up to the stuff you can get for other systems for the price Sony's asking. The 35 and 55 are very good, but are pretty pricey for what they are. I'm giving up a little AF speed using the adapter, but I manually focus everything now so I don't care.
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