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#7791750 - 07/25/14 11:47 PM Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting
Silock Moderator Offline
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http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/07/750kcalday-deficit-approach-to-cutting.html

750kcal/day Deficit Approach to "Cutting" Beats Cautious 300kcal/day Deficit: Almost 2kg Fat in 4 Weeks + No Decline in Testosterone or Muscle Loss in Lean Athletes



One of the commonest reasons people don't achieve the physique of their dreams is fear! The fear of losing muscle weight on a "cut" and the fear of gaining fat weight on a "bulk". The study at hand confirms: There is no reason to be afraid of cutting.

In the course of the four-week cutting period in the study at hand, the subjects, 20-35 year-old national and international level Finnish track and field male athletes from jumping and short distance running events (e.g. 100-200m) with already low body fat percentages lost another ~2% body fat, and no muscle in spite of a highly significant 750kcal/day deficit.

The data in Figure 1 which is the outcome of a controlled 4-week study in the course of which the subjects were advised to cut fat and carbs and keep their protein intake stable make a clear statement: Trying to cut with a caloric deficit of only 300kcal/day is a waste of time" ... at least for someone who starts with a body fat percentage of only 10%, as the subjects in the study at hand did.

As you can see in Figure 2 the subjects did as they were told and cut back on both fat and carbohydrates - in conjunction with the physical activity this is certainly the key to lean body mass and performance maintenance.
"The counter-movement jump and 20-m sprint time improved consistently (p ≤ 0.05) only in HWR (-700kcal/day), by 2.6 ± 2.5 cm and 0.04 ± 0.04 s, respectively. Finally, athletes with a fat percentage 10% or over at the baseline were able to preserve FFM." (Huovinen. 2014)
Whether that's also the reason that the scientists did not observe significant differences in serum testosterone in either of the two groups is questionable

(Testosterone / cortisol: 33.6 (pre) vs. 38.3 (post)), though - especially in view of previous results like those I wrote about in the following two articles:
"High or Low Protein Intakes Have Profound Influence on Testosterone, SHBG, Estrogen, Cortisol & Co?" (learn more) and
"High Protein Diets Don't Counter Anti-Anabolic Effects of Low Energy Intake" (learn more)

It's more likely that the 27.1kcal/kg of body weight, the subjects in the 700kcal/day diet consumed were still more than enough to cover the basic energy requirements. With an average body weight of ~75kg that's still more than 2,000kcal and thus way more than the average starvation diet of the average overweight person will deliver.

Bottom line: The results of the study support the use of short, but relatively intense dieting periods. Dieting periods with a 750kcal/day deficit - a deficit that is still only -24% below the baseline intake of the athletes.

What's yet also important is that we don't forget that a dieting principle that works for lean athletes will not necessarily work for an overweight or obese person. The general idea to cut back by 24% and not just 12% (to avoid muscle loss) from carbohydrates and fats while maintaining an optimal protein intake of ~2g/kg body weight is yet something I can whole-heartedly recommend to heavier dieters, as well.

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#7800707 - 07/31/14 11:20 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: Silock]
ItsTheAussie Offline
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I still don't know how people can survive eating 750 cal a day, obviously they can, but I would be cranky as hell
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#7800714 - 07/31/14 11:27 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: ItsTheAussie]
Silock Moderator Offline
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It's a 750kcal/day deficit, not 750kcal a day. Although, that's pretty damn close to what I'm doing atm.
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#7801489 - 08/01/14 12:29 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: Silock]
ItsTheAussie Offline
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Right id say at a 750kcal defect I'd probably be just about at 750kcal. Aren't you just mad all the time? Haha what do you eat all day
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#7801838 - 08/01/14 02:48 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: ItsTheAussie]
Silock Moderator Offline
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No, I'm in a damn good mood, I'd say. Maybe it's the supplements. I don't eat all day. Not until after soccer at night.

900 kcal of protein foods, usually cod, shrimp, or chicken. 6g of fish oil.

9g melatonin
60mg ginkgo biloba
5-htp
Multivitamin
Magnesium & calcium pills
Creatine

I think that's it.

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#7801989 - 08/01/14 04:31 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: Silock]
ItsTheAussie Offline
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Damn I might have to try that. Even the first couple days?
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#7802117 - 08/01/14 06:38 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: ItsTheAussie]
Silock Moderator Offline
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First couple of days what?
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#7802236 - 08/01/14 09:03 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: Silock]
bt0 Offline
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Calorie reduction, I would guess.

My biggest issue with cutting calories is ending up super hungry at night and not being able to get to sleep, anyone have good tips for that?

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#7802352 - 08/01/14 11:09 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: bt0]
Silock Moderator Offline
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Eat only at night, fast during the day.
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#7802531 - 08/02/14 09:53 AM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: Silock]
M Online   content
Will discover Tetris in 2024
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Posts: 40738
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 Originally Posted By: Silock
No, I'm in a damn good mood, I'd say. Maybe it's the supplements. I don't eat all day. Not until after soccer at night.

900 kcal of protein foods, usually cod, shrimp, or chicken. 6g of fish oil.

9g melatonin
60mg ginkgo biloba
5-htp
Multivitamin
Magnesium & calcium pills
Creatine

I think that's it.


You're a fan of Lyle?

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#7802886 - 08/02/14 06:28 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: M]
Silock Moderator Offline
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Fan is a strong word.

The guy knows his shit, but he's an asshole. He's right, but he's a dick.

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#7804977 - 08/04/14 04:41 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: Silock]
ItsTheAussie Offline
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Day 1, I feel surprisingly better than I thought I would. I think mentally if your body knows it's not going to eat you don't feel as hungry. Or at least that's my theory.

We'll see how my workout goes.
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#7807400 - 08/06/14 11:42 AM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: ItsTheAussie]
DieZel Offline
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this might be ok for a 4 week period, but not long term... Fast cuts are much more likely to cause more lean mass loss vs slow cuts...

If you're a major fat ass, going on a hard cut likely is not going to hurt you, but I have a hard time believing that a somewhat lean person is better suited with a hard cut vs a slow one...

a hard cut is more mental than anything... most people simply cannot do it without going binge crazy at some point...

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#7807404 - 08/06/14 11:43 AM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: Silock]
DieZel Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Silock
Fan is a strong word.

The guy knows his shit, but he's an asshole. He's right, but he's a dick.


biggest dick on the internet... that's a lot coming from me... lol

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#7807880 - 08/06/14 04:29 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: DieZel]
Silock Moderator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: DieZel
this might be ok for a 4 week period, but not long term... Fast cuts are much more likely to cause more lean mass loss vs slow cuts...

If you're a major fat ass, going on a hard cut likely is not going to hurt you, but I have a hard time believing that a somewhat lean person is better suited with a hard cut vs a slow one...

a hard cut is more mental than anything... most people simply cannot do it without going binge crazy at some point...



That's why you keep protein sky high and continue weight training.

This does say it should be a relatively short period of time. But the cool thing about science is that it's true whether you believe it or not ;\)

Even a gradual cut is hard mentally. With a long period of time, there are more events and more opportunities to screw up. And with a more shallow deficit, it's just easier to erase fat loss progress.

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#7807945 - 08/06/14 05:30 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: Silock]
DieZel Offline
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Registered: 07/16/06
Posts: 18220
Loc: 18th green
true that... i cut for 5 months...

but next time i'm just gonna use drugs and cut for 12 weeks... lol

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#7807969 - 08/06/14 06:05 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: DieZel]
Silock Moderator Offline
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I wish I trusted sources to use drugs. I'd be using the fuck outta some clen right now.
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#7807979 - 08/06/14 06:33 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: Silock]
ItsTheAussie Offline
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Registered: 10/29/02
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Loc: SD Crew
3 days in, still feel ok-ish. No worse than any other really low carb cuts. Still able to hit workouts every day.
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#7808009 - 08/06/14 07:09 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: ItsTheAussie]
Silock Moderator Offline
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Sweet! It's not so bad, especially if you're already mostly fat-adapted.
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#7814892 - 08/11/14 08:08 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: Silock]
ItsTheAussie Offline
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Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 10721
Loc: SD Crew
I'm onto week 2. Honestly feel fine now, one meal a day is simple. I honestly thought I would be showing better results, but it's also only been a week haha.
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#7815038 - 08/11/14 09:53 PM Re: Study: Extreme cuts more effective than gradual cutting [Re: ItsTheAussie]
Silock Moderator Offline
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It can take a few days. And then one day, you'll just drop like 7 pounds out of the blue.
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