#7731395 - 06/12/14 03:54 PM
advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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san jose rock-n-roll marathon, Oct 5, 2014
gives me not quite 4 months
where I'm at: 10 miles/week, max long run of a 10k. Had been fighting some knee issues but those seem to have faded as I reduced mileage.
Goal is just to finish and then maybe go sub 2h, so just a bit over 9 min miles I guess.
Current 5k PR this year is 24:xx [8:00 pace], and my 10k PR is 53:xx, or 8:35/mi or so.
My brief internet research on "how to run a 1/2 marathon" seems to suggest running ~4x a week and 20-24 miles/week or so for this type of goal, with one 'long run' a week, and a mix of speed/tempo work and other stuff I dont really understand.
Am I going to be dissapointed if I gradually increase my mileage to ~15 a week with say a 'speed' day, a 'long/slow' day, and then maybe a tempo workout [3x/wk] on race day? [eg have a bad time or go over 2h, etc], eventually I plan to have my 'long run' in the 10-12 mile range [1x a week]
background: noob jogger that basically started light jogging in Feb. I have 157 miles jogged so far YTD per strava. Yes, I realize that is very little. Last couple months I'm averaging 10 miles/week tho except for 2 weeks I basically took off w/knee probs.
My stretch goal is say 1:45 to 1:50 or so, eg. avging a hair over 8:00/miles.
Any suggestions? I also train for sprint swimming and tris so getting much more time jogging is going to be tough without some sacrifices. Last month I tried to 'double up' workouts [eg swim + bike] or [bike + run] on a given day [~2 hrs of aerobic work/day] but I was burning out so I've backed off and I'm much happier for it.
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso 
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#7731422 - 06/12/14 04:08 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: stickaz_old]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11402
Loc: The OC
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I used this one:
http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51312/Half-Marathon-Novice-2-Training-Program
As most people will tell you the key is to not skip the long runs. With your current knee condition I strongly suggest 1) mild strength training, and 2) running no more than every other day. Take Sundays and Wednesdays (or whatever your mid-week would be) and do strength with some elliptical to keep pressure off the joints.
Deadlifts and back squats are easy but very effective leg/back exercises. In my case, it reduced recovery after long runs, from 3 days down to 1. GL.
_________________________
09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#7731511 - 06/12/14 04:43 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: Design]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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cool thks, I'm ok with 'simply finishing' and being at/around/just over 2h also. I pretty much hate running but there is some intersection between greater running fitness and doing better in my planned distance for tris [international with the 10k] so I figure why not.
I don't want anything crazy there just say sub 50:00 around this timeframe also on the run leg. hopefully these goals all sort of overlap.
also it should be plainly stated that I don't currently [not in the last couple years] run anywhere near this distance. I think I accidentally did 7.7 miles on a planned 10k workout recently. That was about it. So theres that lol.
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#7732311 - 06/13/14 07:26 AM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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Lividentity
Major Member
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
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Definitely go with the Higdon plans. I've used them for 2 half marathons and 1 full and planning on doing it again this year for another full.
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#7732678 - 06/13/14 10:39 AM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: Lividentity]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered
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Good luck OP. This is how it starts though.
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#7754823 - 06/30/14 11:41 AM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: stickaz_old]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered
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I think you'll be able to push to a bit faster than that, but I doubt you'll break 1:50 yet. Though if you're only running? not having to cycle or swim? You might.
FWIW, that's faster than my best so far.
And yeah, I've long thought your LSR pace should be slower. Maybe not 11+ slow, like you said you were recovering. But most the calculators says 2.5 minutes slower than your 5k pace is a good proximation.
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#7754980 - 06/30/14 01:29 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: ]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11402
Loc: The OC
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My suggestion is don't push yourself too hard the first time out and possibly set yourself up for disappointment. There are so many factors such as crowds, hydration, weather, etc. Just go out, take it all in, and enjoy the ride the first time out. 
_________________________
09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#7755011 - 06/30/14 01:55 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: Design]
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Lividentity
Major Member
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1302
Loc: Gehenna
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You're got 3 months to train and already ran an 11 miler? You shouldn't have any issues with the distance than. In reality you don't even need to run 11 miles to train for a half. If you want to be faster go do some speed work and some hills if you can. You're going to do a lot better if once a week you only run 3 miles, but it is quarter mile repeats than if you do 1 more 8 mile run, imho. Those Hal Higdon plans sure worked that way for me. I followed the plan, actually did speed work and dropped 10 mins on my half PR.
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#7755018 - 06/30/14 02:04 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: Lividentity]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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so reading between the lines I should do something like this?
Tues: pace 5k [for me, something like 8:30 miles]--for a goal pace of 1/2@ 1:50
thurs: Hill repeats or 400m repeats [zone 4 aka hard!], 3 miles or so
Fri: tiny brick at the end of a bike [5k or so], around 9:00 pace [??]
su: long/slow run: 8-10 miles around 10:00/mi pace
sound reasonable for now?
puts me around 15-20 miles for the week depending if I skip thurs or fri [or do both]
on a side note I'll be masters swimming 2x a week and 1-2 surf days/week, at least 1 day of weights and 3-4 bike commute days + possibly a weekend ride so around 80 miles/week
this is probably the absolute max I can squeeze in running without sacrificing something else or doing 2x/day workouts -- which seem to hard for me
thanks for the advice everyone. I think perhaps simple survival is best in my first half. Maybe go out on 9:00 for a solid 5 miles or so and if I feel up to it, maybe push it a little.
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#7755022 - 06/30/14 02:09 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: Cheesegoggles]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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10k under 50:00 posted on strava?
I've always heard 8:00 pace is the arbitrary threshold between running and jogging?
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#7755222 - 06/30/14 04:22 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: stickaz_old]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered
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10k under 50:00 posted on strava?
Yiiisss!
I'm still a yogger!
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#7810567 - 08/08/14 01:42 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: ]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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update:
body seems to be holding ~15 mile/week pace. wooo
been getting some more quality speedwork in lately, generally been getting the long run in weekly
I'm still a bit scared of the distance/race but it's good for me to have something over my head that is tough to do. Motivates me to get out and jog.
as an example this week I did a tues/thurs tempo-ish short-ish runs (~3m ea), today I'll throw a brick onto a bike commute, and sunday I will do a long run that allows my weekly total to hit 15-16 miles [so sorta depends how far I go on the brick]
Last week I found myself some hills and got some vert in for running. Was nice really, a nice change-up to the flat running I've always done.
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#7810605 - 08/08/14 02:03 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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how does this sound? I'm sorta fighting not-re-injuring my knee also
Eg week 1: 15 [this week]
week 2: 16.5
week 3: 18.1
week 4: 19.9 [call it 20!]
week 5: 15 [recover week! woo]
week 6: 20-22
week 7: 15 [taper!]
week 8: 6 [taper!] race week
my long runs presently are in the 8-12 mile range [1x/week], converted to canuck I guess that 11k to 20k
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#7810609 - 08/08/14 02:04 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered
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I highly suggest getting that weekly mileage up to at least 20-25...you'll likely have a far better experience at the race (and recovery-wise).
With only ~7 weeks and his other training, I'm not sure pushing to 25 would be advised. That's a big increase.
but 15 seems a little light for your first 1/2. I mean I've done 1/2s on 5 miles a week, but my goal pace was slow, and I'd done a few. I had no pain the next day fwiw.
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#7810729 - 08/08/14 02:52 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: ]
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Sir Ironpool
Sponsored by Toyota
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 71770
Loc: Long Beach, CA
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I highly suggest getting that weekly mileage up to at least 20-25...you'll likely have a far better experience at the race (and recovery-wise). With only ~7 weeks and his other training, I'm not sure pushing to 25 would be advised. That's a big increase. but 15 seems a little light for your first 1/2. I mean I've done 1/2s on 5 miles a week, but my goal pace was slow, and I'd done a few. I had no pain the next day fwiw.
Nah, 6 weeks would be plenty of time to build up to an extra 5
-7 miles a week before he tapers for this race. Like I said, it would make his race far more enjoyable with far less walking.
Either way, he'll do fine.
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#7810965 - 08/08/14 05:21 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered
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I highly suggest getting that weekly mileage up to at least 20-25...you'll likely have a far better experience at the race (and recovery-wise). With only ~7 weeks and his other training, I'm not sure pushing to 25 would be advised. That's a big increase. but 15 seems a little light for your first 1/2. I mean I've done 1/2s on 5 miles a week, but my goal pace was slow, and I'd done a few. I had no pain the next day fwiw. Nah, 6 weeks would be plenty of time to build up to an extra 5 -7 miles a week before he tapers for this race. Like I said, it would make his race far more enjoyable with far less walking. Either way, he'll do fine.
7 weeks to increase 10 miles wouldn't be much, though it's still nearly double his current weekly mileage. We're not talking about an established runner though, he's already ramped up a lot. And he has many other activities, and has already had his body tell him to watch it(see knee posts 3 months ago).
I think based on the dramatic change in lifestyle in the last 12 months, he'd have to trade off by reducing one of his other activities.
I honestly don't think that 1 week of doing 25 miles vs say 20, for a half, offers much benefit. But I think it does increase risk. That's my opinion.
Op will probably be fine though either way.
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#7810972 - 08/08/14 05:29 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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#7811003 - 08/08/14 05:53 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: stickaz_old]
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Sir Ironpool
Sponsored by Toyota
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 71770
Loc: Long Beach, CA
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Keep in mind that I was in a very similar position as you when I started my foray into this nuttiness. Mid 30's, 60 pounds overweight and couch to full retard in 10 seconds flat. 
I know what it's like fear injury and to deal with all those initial aches and pains as your body gets used to this new stress put on it. The thing with running though, is that the only way to make it stronger and more resistant to injury is to push it. That 10% IMO is very conservative. As long as you listen to it, your body is capable of much more stress. You have a good base fitness already, so ramping up a little should be okay. You're getting very little ROI from swimming and biking, so it's okay to ease off those and put a little more I to your run, where you'll see the tangible results come race day (in both the Tri and half)
13.1 is great distance because it demands respect, but also because you can "race" it. My own results went:
1:50
1:45
1:29
all in about 18 months. No specific training other than building up my mileage base.
The main thing is to have fun though, so do what works for you. I've successfully "coached" a handful of people to PR's at multiple distances, so I know that my suggestions don't just work for me. Take whatever you want out of all that, and go out and kick some ass. 
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#7811012 - 08/08/14 05:56 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: stickaz_old]
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gamby
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 40865
Loc: RI
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Gaining weight at this activity level is impressive. Are you doing the "I'm training a ton so I'll eat whatever the fuck I want and burn it off later" method?
Even dropping 5 lbs will reduce the shock on your legs a good amount. I hope you can figure it out (you know the answer, it's just an answer that is no fun at all).
_________________________
___________________________________ gamby still have an EM1--go figure 
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#7811367 - 08/08/14 11:17 PM
Re: advice sought re: 1/2 marathon [flat] in ~4 months
[Re: stickaz_old]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11402
Loc: The OC
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I also disagree on increasing the mileage this soon before the half. Especially with the OP's previous injuries. The key is really the long run with at least two shorter runs to keep the leg muscles fresh. Maybe work in elliptical and/or strength training on the off days.
Finish the race, evaluate, decide if worth doing more competitively. My 2 cents...
Edited by Design (08/08/14 11:18 PM)
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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