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#8565047 - 02/24/16 08:10 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3472
Loc: Denver, CO
Damn thats a lot of watts for 31mph. I did 34.5mph for 2min on this bridge sprint strava segment and it was only 410 watts and its flat.
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#8565290 - 02/24/16 11:14 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
stickaz_old Offline
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Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
Yea the bike speed is only going to accelerate so fast when you bump from 300w to 1200w in such a short distance, I am basically at the point where I challenge for a green jersey on these segments (have gotten a 2nd and a 3rd, this was like 14th out of 300 or so)
It did get up to 40 finally but with the game physics it's going to take your typical mechanics formula to accelerate my 84kg +bike + drag + wind resistance i guess, sounds about right to me

Eg calculate how long 1200w takes to accelerate a rider from 20 to 30 even--these segments are short. Of course in this example I managed to enter the front gate at 30 by coming in somewhat hot (but not hot enough)
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#8565366 - 02/24/16 11:47 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



I don't understand, that plot shows you pretty damn stable at 30mph. How is that accelerating, or 1200w?
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#8565577 - 02/24/16 01:21 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: ]
schtickaz.ai Offline
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Registered: 01/23/12
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well it's reporting the watts, and I looked at it on the "larger view" and the rider mph is overall declining in that ~14s ~0.125 mile sprint segment, enters at 31.8 and 284w instantaneous, exits at 30.2 and 1176w instantaneous, and shows a net 862w for the entire segment lol

I guess resistance and the ~70* turn just before the front gate are the remaining variables. Perhaps some of these values include a delay or lag, I dont know.

I know of course the obvious sentiment is there is no way I can make [500/800/1200w] or whatever

cant wait to take my first green-jersey selfie haha
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#8565993 - 02/24/16 05:46 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: schtickaz.ai]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
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You're supposed to tighten the roller on the trainer against your rear bicycle tire.
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#8566168 - 02/24/16 09:13 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
schtickaz.ai Offline
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Registered: 01/23/12
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4 half turns from first contact right? and monitor for any squeaking [squeaking = slipping]. at least thats what the setup guide says and most other users recommend.

omg or I can actually make 5s power similar to a cat4 rider of my bodyweight. zomg
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#8566194 - 02/24/16 10:01 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: schtickaz.ai]
robbbby Offline
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you do 4 half turns? I've always done 5 full turns from first contact.
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#8566206 - 02/24/16 10:17 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
civic00sedan Offline
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Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 1170
Loc: NY
i don't think there enough resistance based on the numbers. Try 4 full turns
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#8566704 - 02/25/16 11:54 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: civic00sedan]
schtickaz.ai Offline
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Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 36104
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I followed the setup guide, and forums regarding it's usage, it's not slipping or squeaking [I have recordings], so there's nothing to fix. I've tried cranking it down even harder and it doesnt affect the resulting power readings but my 110psi wheel is bulging at that point and it doesnt look good. Theres a proper tension range and an improper one, I prefer the proper one. The power #'s I'm reporting are perfectly normal for a cat4 rider of my bodyweight [190#] for 5-10s of sprinting. Strava segment sprint segment results on the road show the same. Apologies for those this triggers.


all of my #'s are lining up as a middle-of-the-road Cat4 rider which I don't think is terribly surprising given that I've got a bit over 10k road miles these last 4 years. TBH it's probably rather sad that it's that low. I blame short commute rides I guess.
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#8566834 - 02/25/16 12:43 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: schtickaz.ai]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
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Loc: Denver, CO
theres not right or wrong amount of turns. if hes using a power meter it wont matter. not enough pressure on the tire and it will spin easy and his power will be low because he will run out of gearing thanks to low resistance. if its to much pressure, itll be harder for him to pedal and he'll do more watts... it all evens out.
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#8567286 - 02/25/16 05:18 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
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Loc: Denver, CO
Did my second FTP test today. First was in December, 320watts for 20min, 4.34watts/g

Todays best after 3 months of Coaching/Training



364watts for 20min, 4.94watts/kg

right at UCI DIII Pro


Edited by nato2377 (02/25/16 05:19 PM)

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#8567296 - 02/25/16 05:28 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
schtickaz.ai Offline
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Registered: 01/23/12
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sick. I'm moving myself over to the ladies table \:\|

I havent retested myself on that since the last time--just have no spare energy with trying to do [3] quality runs per week. Maybe I can sneak another ftp test in somwhere I think I can hit 300 for 20m :p

that would be +10 for me [last time did 280w for 10 then 300w for 10 for a net of 290]

*btw the kinetic probably reads ~30w/consistent high lol
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#8572442 - 02/29/16 07:06 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: schtickaz.ai]
shamrok Offline
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Registered: 11/04/01
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3rd with the fatty ain't shabby for first race of the season eh? lost 2nd by 1sec \:\(
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#8576681 - 03/03/16 05:02 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: shamrok]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
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Loc: Denver, CO
nice job! how did you like it as a race machine?

first race sun. 60k mtb race

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#8576737 - 03/03/16 05:44 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



so I'm thinking of trying road racing this year....

how much will I get my ass handed to me on my "gravel grinder"

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#8576781 - 03/03/16 06:27 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: ]
schtickaz.ai Offline
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Registered: 01/23/12
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are you familiar with the letters "DFL"


*note: I recorded a DFL last year in a 10k /yess
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#8576820 - 03/03/16 07:08 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: ]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3472
Loc: Denver, CO
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
so I'm thinking of trying road racing this year....

how much will I get my ass handed to me on my "gravel grinder"


how much do you ride?

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#8576850 - 03/03/16 08:14 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3472
Loc: Denver, CO
youll be ok on a gravel grinder bike but the pace will be faster than what you would expect for cat5. it will be full of sketchy bike handlers and prob will have crashes, hence, "crash 5" category. its fun though. stay towards the front, as in top 10, to avoid the yo yo effect at the back, dont make any quick moves and you will be fine
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#8577028 - 03/03/16 09:35 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
shamrok Offline
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Registered: 11/04/01
Posts: 6338
 Originally Posted By: nato2377
nice job! how did you like it as a race machine?

first race sun. 60k mtb race


it wasn't too bad - albeit there were 3 forced dismount sections - where it sucked ass to have to carry. the more 'rocky' stuff is coming up in next few months and I'll have a better feel for those types of courses.

we had a long road section that led into the finish ... it sucked trying to push for a solid half mile at full tilt (4.6" tires at 25-26mph/175bpm = barf)

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#8577464 - 03/04/16 10:20 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: schtickaz.ai]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: stickaz_duex
are you familiar with the letters "DFL"


*note: I recorded a DFL last year in a 10k /yess


You remember my first CX, no? DFL (mechanical failure), but at least I ran 4 miles to avoid DNF.

 Originally Posted By: nato2377
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
so I'm thinking of trying road racing this year....

how much will I get my ass handed to me on my "gravel grinder"


how much do you ride?

40-50 miles a week, year round, mostly in the form of very short rides with lots of "intervals"(stoplight racing).

It shouldn't be too hard to add a 15 miler every week, but a lot of it will still be stop/go.
Should I do something like add 2 fairly fast 15 milers and one 40 mile cruiser just to get some endurance?

also about to grab cadence/speed sensor for trainer road. Right now I only screw off on the trainer once a week. (still pretty rainy, and it's hard to get away from house because I have a toddler.)

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#8577469 - 03/04/16 10:22 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: nato2377
youll be ok on a gravel grinder bike but the pace will be faster than what you would expect for cat5. it will be full of sketchy bike handlers and prob will have crashes, hence, "crash 5" category. its fun though. stay towards the front, as in top 10, to avoid the yo yo effect at the back, dont make any quick moves and you will be fine


How fast we talking?
Like cruise at 22, final sprint up to 30-ish?

It's hard to know what pack riding will feel like. I've done CX, so I've seen crashees and bumped tires,, but obviously it's mostly open and lower speed. I'm not sure what I can expect for speed in a pack vs open road speeds when I'm riding solo.

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#8577853 - 03/04/16 01:58 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: ]
nato2377 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3472
Loc: Denver, CO
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
 Originally Posted By: stickaz_duex
are you familiar with the letters "DFL"


*note: I recorded a DFL last year in a 10k /yess


You remember my first CX, no? DFL (mechanical failure), but at least I ran 4 miles to avoid DNF.

 Originally Posted By: nato2377
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
so I'm thinking of trying road racing this year....

how much will I get my ass handed to me on my "gravel grinder"


how much do you ride?

40-50 miles a week, year round, mostly in the form of very short rides with lots of "intervals"(stoplight racing).

It shouldn't be too hard to add a 15 miler every week, but a lot of it will still be stop/go.
Should I do something like add 2 fairly fast 15 milers and one 40 mile cruiser just to get some endurance?

also about to grab cadence/speed sensor for trainer road. Right now I only screw off on the trainer once a week. (still pretty rainy, and it's hard to get away from house because I have a toddler.)


yeah you def need to get a long ride to help with endurance.
this is what id do if youre timed crunched:

2 15 milers at fast pace 8 on percieved effort scale, with 10 being flat out
1 40 miler at 6 pace work up to 7, about what would be a tempo effort
other days, just spin around and not pay attention to the details as recovery days
if on a day you were supposed to ride fast but get out and not feeling it, just back it done to a moderate pace like 4 or 5

on trainer, do the interval workouts. sufferfest vids are good.

Edit: you could also do like an hour of intervals, 1.5 ride at 7 effort and then a 40 miler at 5 effort . that would cover your bases well also





Edited by nato2377 (03/04/16 02:04 PM)

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#8577862 - 03/04/16 02:02 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: ]
nato2377 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3472
Loc: Denver, CO
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
 Originally Posted By: nato2377
youll be ok on a gravel grinder bike but the pace will be faster than what you would expect for cat5. it will be full of sketchy bike handlers and prob will have crashes, hence, "crash 5" category. its fun though. stay towards the front, as in top 10, to avoid the yo yo effect at the back, dont make any quick moves and you will be fine


How fast we talking?
Like cruise at 22, final sprint up to 30-ish?

It's hard to know what pack riding will feel like. I've done CX, so I've seen crashees and bumped tires,, but obviously it's mostly open and lower speed. I'm not sure what I can expect for speed in a pack vs open road speeds when I'm riding solo.


yea 22-24 about right. pack riding isnt that bad. you just REALLY want to stay towards the front, be smooth and predictable and dont do anything stupid. your a cat5, not racing for a olympic gold. even in the 2/3 races i do, people do the dumbest shit to win 50 bucks. cat5 is a free for all, so just sit towards the front, dont go to the front and pull the peloton along, stay away from sketchy riders and youll be fine. also, STAY TOWARDS THE FRONT!

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#8577967 - 03/04/16 03:19 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
shamrok Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 11/04/01
Posts: 6338
 Originally Posted By: nato2377
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
 Originally Posted By: stickaz_duex
are you familiar with the letters "DFL"


*note: I recorded a DFL last year in a 10k /yess


You remember my first CX, no? DFL (mechanical failure), but at least I ran 4 miles to avoid DNF.

 Originally Posted By: nato2377
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
so I'm thinking of trying road racing this year....

how much will I get my ass handed to me on my "gravel grinder"


how much do you ride?

40-50 miles a week, year round, mostly in the form of very short rides with lots of "intervals"(stoplight racing).

It shouldn't be too hard to add a 15 miler every week, but a lot of it will still be stop/go.
Should I do something like add 2 fairly fast 15 milers and one 40 mile cruiser just to get some endurance?

also about to grab cadence/speed sensor for trainer road. Right now I only screw off on the trainer once a week. (still pretty rainy, and it's hard to get away from house because I have a toddler.)


yeah you def need to get a long ride to help with endurance.
this is what id do if youre timed crunched:

2 15 milers at fast pace 8 on percieved effort scale, with 10 being flat out
1 40 miler at 6 pace work up to 7, about what would be a tempo effort
other days, just spin around and not pay attention to the details as recovery days
if on a day you were supposed to ride fast but get out and not feeling it, just back it done to a moderate pace like 4 or 5

on trainer, do the interval workouts. sufferfest vids are good.

Edit: you could also do like an hour of intervals, 1.5 ride at 7 effort and then a 40 miler at 5 effort . that would cover your bases well also



agree - Local Hero and Downward Spiral are pretty good I've found - Blender as well

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#8578194 - 03/04/16 07:42 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: shamrok]
schtickaz.ai Offline
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Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 36104
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sorta on the ~ realm of sneaking into a green jersey [1s off]
5th out of 172 is good for me tho



avg'd 603w for the segment and 30.0 mph
Went waay to early and faded. But I did hit the front gate at 29 so it didnt matter to much I guess--much better than I normally do.

Ran into Barry Bonds on the course lol
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#8578201 - 03/04/16 07:48 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: schtickaz.ai]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3472
Loc: Denver, CO
nice! i wish i could do zwift but i have a chromebook \:\(
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#8578525 - 03/05/16 11:07 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
master electrician
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 15428
Loc: Canada
I just checked out zwift again, they charge a monthly fee now? I thought it was free.
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#8580112 - 03/07/16 12:39 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



So apparently I'm slow as shit on anything over 20-30minutes. Definitely loss of tempo after that. This should come to no surprise.
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#8580272 - 03/07/16 02:46 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: ]
The Mighty BellRacer Offline
Daps up men at the gym
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Registered: 05/03/00
Posts: 26658
Loc: DFW
that zwift does look fun. i may give it a try but i'll need to get a real computer first.
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#8589024 - 03/15/16 07:40 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: The Mighty BellRacer]
robbbby Offline
master electrician
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 15428
Loc: Canada
I finally purchased a garmin device after all these years, how the fuck do I get my rides onto strava?
All my rides auto sync through my phone with garmin connect.
On strava, i've added my garmin connect account and it says that it is connected/linked, but none of my rides are showing up on strava?
This shit is too complicated.

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#8589044 - 03/15/16 07:56 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3472
Loc: Denver, CO
i got a new smartphone and am having the same problem
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#8589045 - 03/15/16 07:56 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3472
Loc: Denver, CO
give me a add on strava
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#8589100 - 03/15/16 08:43 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
schtickaz.ai Offline
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Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 36104
Loc: State, Country, etc.
I think you have to authorize strava to pull from your garmin account
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#8589181 - 03/15/16 10:22 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: schtickaz.ai]
robbbby Offline
master electrician
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 15428
Loc: Canada
 Originally Posted By: stickaz_duex
I think you have to authorize strava to pull from your garmin account


I did that, in my strava settings it shows it is connected to garmin connect to pull my rides, nothing shows.

 Originally Posted By: nato2377
give me a add on strava


If I knew how, I would.

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#8589368 - 03/16/16 08:10 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3472
Loc: Denver, CO
Pm me your name and ill add you
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