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#7577965 - 02/27/14 08:41 AM which is better?
Duc Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
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Loc: MD
I got bored as hell last night and constructed a white box (if that's what you call it) to see how it would affect my photos.

these two photos are of a Ford 8.8 1310 CV flange adaptor. the first photo is with the flash on, in portrait mode on my t3i, and the second is with it off.



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#7578021 - 02/27/14 08:53 AM Re: which is better? [Re: Duc]
Senor Eduardo_82 Offline
miataist
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You built a light box, then didn't use any lights.
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#7578063 - 02/27/14 09:04 AM Re: which is better? [Re: Senor Eduardo_82]
Duc Offline
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 Originally Posted By: eddie _82
You built a light box, then didn't use any lights.


don't have any. I don't want to make a studio per say but I do want to find ways to make my photos better while still learning
_________________________
BigAl: there is a huge difference between working out to be healthy, and ingesting 10 protein shakes a day, creatine, roids, etc.
JoeyBalls: Yup. That's why I said I workout to look good. If i wanted to be healthy. I'd swim.


..you can NEVER out train a bad diet -- FitExcellence

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#7578072 - 02/27/14 09:07 AM Re: which is better? [Re: Duc]
Senor Eduardo_82 Offline
miataist
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Registered: 01/09/03
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You need lights for a light box. It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=281524

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#7578099 - 02/27/14 09:23 AM Re: which is better? [Re: Senor Eduardo_82]
LNXGUY Offline
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Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 106838
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
4 pieces of paper, a card board box,, scissors, some cheap lights, viola!!! Lightbox!
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The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children.
'09 E90 335d

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#7578170 - 02/27/14 09:50 AM Re: which is better? [Re: LNXGUY]
Duc Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 35381
Loc: MD
 Originally Posted By: LNXGUY
4 pieces of paper, a card board box,, scissors, some cheap lights, viola!!! Lightbox!


funny how one wants to stay outside with their photography and I start venturi9ng inside to take product shots of stuff.

winter needs to pass so I can get back outside to shoot
_________________________
BigAl: there is a huge difference between working out to be healthy, and ingesting 10 protein shakes a day, creatine, roids, etc.
JoeyBalls: Yup. That's why I said I workout to look good. If i wanted to be healthy. I'd swim.


..you can NEVER out train a bad diet -- FitExcellence

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#7578194 - 02/27/14 10:02 AM Re: which is better? [Re: Duc]
LNXGUY Offline
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Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 106838
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
You can still shoot in the winter, it just sucks most of the time

I was out chasing snowy owls yesterday.. Of course the only one we saw was about 500ft away in the middle of a field. Even with the Canon 100-400 there wasn't enough reach. Then the god damn thing flew up and over the highway. We lost sight of it while on the chase, never did see it again.
_________________________
-Bill
The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children.
'09 E90 335d

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#7578931 - 02/27/14 02:25 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Duc]
chef Offline
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Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 23758
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if you want to shoot commercially, like for warn and stuff, it would behoove you to learn product photography. check out the don gianatti courses on creative live. he did one on table top work, and he constructs and uses a number of low buck modifiers. There's a handful of people int he p52 classes that are using home depot clamp on lights, desktop lights, all sorts of random stuff. you can get velum/transfer paper and make a frame out of poster board, tape the velum over the frame and stick that in front of a light, or make the white box out of that construction, now you have a backlit box. you don't need strobes, you can do constant lighting with great results. lock down the camera with a tripod so you can keep a nice low iso for smooth results. that makes it hard as you're learning what angles to shoot from, but be patient while you work through it.

Also, learn how to set a custom white balance. I'm pretty sure you can on your camera. I think with canon's you'd drape a paper towel or coffee filter over the lens, point at the light source, set your exposure correctly, take a shot, then you apply that shot to the setting. on my nikon's i just take the shot and it does it on it's own.


i think on the yoke's, you'd want most of it in focus, then clone the seam out in the background. The photos are very flat, no contrast. That doesn't mean ratchet up the contrast in post though. As these aren't very reflective it'd be tough to get a utilize a specular highlight to show the shape of the yoke...I don't really know how I'd make this interesting.
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#7579054 - 02/27/14 03:43 PM Re: which is better? [Re: chef]
Huggy Offline
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What that white balance and focal point do?

Seriously, neither picture are that great as way too thin on depth of field. Open up to at least F8, preferably f11-22 to get everything in focus. A tripod and a longer shutter speed will keep everything else good. Finally, if you miss the white balance while shooting, a good program like PS or Lightroom will have the proper corrections for you.
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#7579085 - 02/27/14 04:07 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Huggy]
Duc Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 35381
Loc: MD
 Originally Posted By: Murder
What that white balance and focal point do?

Seriously, neither picture are that great as way too thin on depth of field. Open up to at least F8, preferably f11-22 to get everything in focus. A tripod and a longer shutter speed will keep everything else good. Finally, if you miss the white balance while shooting, a good program like PS or Lightroom will have the proper corrections for you.


thank you. I will try that tonight. i'm still learning about the focal points

does that setting help with subjects that are close up like the one that I posted above or is that a good general setting
_________________________
BigAl: there is a huge difference between working out to be healthy, and ingesting 10 protein shakes a day, creatine, roids, etc.
JoeyBalls: Yup. That's why I said I workout to look good. If i wanted to be healthy. I'd swim.


..you can NEVER out train a bad diet -- FitExcellence

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#7579178 - 02/27/14 05:11 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Duc]
Nate047 Offline
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Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 28558
Loc: La La Land, CA
If you want to shoot with shallow depth of field, make sure you focus on the part you want people to look at. These, are both pretty bad... Nothing personal. Try again!

Nate
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#7579235 - 02/27/14 05:51 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Nate047]
GSParker
Unregistered



You need a curved back to prevent seeing the seam and can do this with a simple piece of paper. Or multiple if the item is larger.

You need to stop down to at least f8, you should have lights, even if they're a constant source and you should always position the item as you intend it to be perceived.

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#7579249 - 02/27/14 05:59 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Nate047]
Duc Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 35381
Loc: MD
 Originally Posted By: Nate047
If you want to shoot with shallow depth of field, make sure you focus on the part you want people to look at. These, are both pretty bad... Nothing personal. Try again!

Nate


back to practicing

thanks parker
_________________________
BigAl: there is a huge difference between working out to be healthy, and ingesting 10 protein shakes a day, creatine, roids, etc.
JoeyBalls: Yup. That's why I said I workout to look good. If i wanted to be healthy. I'd swim.


..you can NEVER out train a bad diet -- FitExcellence

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#7579401 - 02/27/14 08:04 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Duc]
NOT spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57149
I'm not sure what settings you're using, but keep in mind that the T3i (and other Canons) force you to ISO 400 when using flash in most circumstances. Just a heads up (since 400 is noisier than 100 or 200 and degrades image quality for no good reason UNLESS you're using the shit out of your flash and it will overheat too quickly if you keep using it at 100 or 200).
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#7579453 - 02/27/14 08:32 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Duc]
Huggy Offline
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Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 42717
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
 Originally Posted By: Duc
 Originally Posted By: Murder
What that white balance and focal point do?

Seriously, neither picture are that great as way too thin on depth of field. Open up to at least F8, preferably f11-22 to get everything in focus. A tripod and a longer shutter speed will keep everything else good. Finally, if you miss the white balance while shooting, a good program like PS or Lightroom will have the proper corrections for you.


thank you. I will try that tonight. i'm still learning about the focal points

does that setting help with subjects that are close up like the one that I posted above or is that a good general setting


Practice!!!!

But if you shoot something close up at say f2.0. Then focus on something far away and take a picture, changing nothing. You will notice that the closer you are, the shallower depth of field (in other words, less is in the focal plane). Now if you raise the aperture up to say f8.0, and repeat the above two photos, you will see that each one will have more in focus, but the subject that is farther away will have a larger depth of field than the closer one.

When you start talking macro photography, or very close subjects, depth of field becomes extremely thin. Also, the higher the zoom, the thinner the depth of field. So shooting at 100mm will have a thinner depth of field as shooting at 50mm.

So go practice depth of field by locking your settings and only changing the aperture.
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Kevin
- Owner and Driver of Cars -

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#7579584 - 02/27/14 10:22 PM Re: which is better? [Re: NOT spotch...]
GSParker
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: spotch...
I'm not sure what settings you're using, but keep in mind that the T3i (and other Canons) force you to ISO 400 when using flash in most circumstances. Just a heads up (since 400 is noisier than 100 or 200 and degrades image quality for no good reason UNLESS you're using the shit out of your flash and it will overheat too quickly if you keep using it at 100 or 200).

I have never heard of or seen a camera force an ISO value on you when using a flash, unless you're using one of those "modes" that no one should ever use.

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#7579752 - 02/28/14 04:13 AM Re: which is better? [Re: ]
NOT spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57149
It's true, manual mode lets you set it how you want (I didn't think the OP was using manual mode?). Auto ISO in AV,TV, AUTO etc will peg it at 400 or higher even if your flash has more than enough juice to properly expose at ISO 100.
_________________________
"On the street where there is no lap timer, feel is all that matters" - scootergeek
"A bunch of nerdy douchebags chasing a ghost." -Ob1 on bitcoin

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#7579763 - 02/28/14 05:51 AM Re: which is better? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Huggy Offline
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Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 42717
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
I never used a flash with my T1i (that I remember), but with my 7D and 5D3 I can't get what I want with a flash unless I shoot manual... It always felt like the camera was fighting me to do so. In manual mode though, super easy.

This reminds me that I really want to get one more flash... I've got a 430exII that I love to shoot with off camera and at work I have 2 Alien Bees 800s, which are fun as well. Maybe I'll get one AB800 for the home and another speedlight.
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Kevin
- Owner and Driver of Cars -

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#7581288 - 02/28/14 04:36 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Huggy]
GB Offline
Sharesies!
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Registered: 03/22/04
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 Originally Posted By: Murder
What that white balance and focal point do?

Seriously, neither picture are that great as way too thin on depth of field. Open up to at least F8, preferably f11-22 to get everything in focus. A tripod and a longer shutter speed will keep everything else good. Finally, if you miss the white balance while shooting, a good program like PS or Lightroom will have the proper corrections for you.


You notice he shot that in auto... right?

Duc, take the camera off auto man, play around, see what different settings do.
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#7581407 - 02/28/14 05:33 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Duc]
MetalheaD Offline
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Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 28175
Loc: Roanoke, VA
 Originally Posted By: Duc



At the very least, put the bottom edge of the back wall below the horizontal surface. If you'd done that, there'd be less of a seam. But you put it on top of the "floor" so there's a big hairy seam back there. Or learn photoshop and get rid of it.
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#7581474 - 02/28/14 06:07 PM Re: which is better? [Re: GB]
Huggy Offline
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Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 42717
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
 Originally Posted By: gb
 Originally Posted By: Murder
What that white balance and focal point do?

Seriously, neither picture are that great as way too thin on depth of field. Open up to at least F8, preferably f11-22 to get everything in focus. A tripod and a longer shutter speed will keep everything else good. Finally, if you miss the white balance while shooting, a good program like PS or Lightroom will have the proper corrections for you.


You notice he shot that in auto... right?

Duc, take the camera off auto man, play around, see what different settings do.


Didn't notice, ouch...

Yeah Duc, no auto... AV, TV or M. Learn those before worrying about lighting and shit.
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#7581489 - 02/28/14 06:19 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Huggy]
MetalheaD Offline
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Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 28175
Loc: Roanoke, VA
Put it in manual and break the fucking knob off.
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#7581613 - 02/28/14 08:31 PM Re: which is better? [Re: MetalheaD]
GSParker
Unregistered



I suggest M mode, always, for off-camera lighting. You just have so much more control over the outcome. And just to be clear, i'm the guy who will typically put it in P or A mode when generally shooting and rarely use M.
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#7581805 - 02/28/14 11:16 PM Re: which is better? [Re: ]
scootergeek Offline
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Registered: 07/24/00
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 Originally Posted By: GSParker
I suggest M mode, always, for off-camera lighting. You just have so much more control over the outcome. And just to be clear, i'm the guy who will typically put it in P or A mode when generally shooting and rarely use M.


Always M with tripod and non-TTL lighting. And I too won't touch M when I'm handheld - no point in slowly and clumsily trying to replicate what my camera can do instantaneously and perfectly.
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#7583533 - 03/02/14 04:08 PM Re: which is better? [Re: scootergeek]
LNXGUY Offline
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Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 106838
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
Av, Tv and M when required.
_________________________
-Bill
The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children.
'09 E90 335d

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#7583607 - 03/02/14 05:07 PM Re: which is better? [Re: MetalheaD]
flyEX #1 Administrator Offline
Man in the Box
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Registered: 01/05/00
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 Originally Posted By: MetalheaD
Put it in manual and break the fucking knob off.


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#7583755 - 03/02/14 06:35 PM Re: which is better? [Re: flyEX #1]
Senor Eduardo_82 Offline
miataist
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Registered: 01/09/03
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My camera doesn't even have a knob

On the bright side, it only has P, Av, Tv and M \:D


Edited by eddie _82 (03/02/14 06:35 PM)

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#7585636 - 03/03/14 07:50 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Senor Eduardo_82]
MetalheaD Offline
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Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 28175
Loc: Roanoke, VA
Ok, let's say it another way: Put it in manual and leave it there until you fully understand how the fucking camera works, then you can use the other modes if they suit your purposes.

Although the "break the knob" comment was actually a quote from someone who makes a pretty fucking good living doing this, telling me how to get better. I might still suck, but I suck a lot less than I did before I made that one change.
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#7585652 - 03/03/14 08:01 PM Re: which is better? [Re: MetalheaD]
Duc Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 35381
Loc: MD
i didnt do any shooting this weekend but i will try to do some shooting around DC tomorrow
_________________________
BigAl: there is a huge difference between working out to be healthy, and ingesting 10 protein shakes a day, creatine, roids, etc.
JoeyBalls: Yup. That's why I said I workout to look good. If i wanted to be healthy. I'd swim.


..you can NEVER out train a bad diet -- FitExcellence

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#7586498 - 03/04/14 12:08 PM Re: which is better? [Re: MetalheaD]
GSParker
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: MetalheaD
Put it in manual and leave it there until you fully understand how the fucking camera works

While this may work for some, it doesn't for all.

I know plenty about how my camera works and I rarely use manual mode. I only use it when I know my exposures will fluctuate and I don't want them to, or i'm using off camera lighting. Otherwise, it hinders what i'm doing than helps.

Learn the camera, definitely, but use the method that works for you. Full manual may not be it.

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#7586561 - 03/04/14 12:38 PM Re: which is better? [Re: ]
Voltron Offline
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Registered: 08/17/01
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Wait, there are other functions other than "M" on my camera? I need to look at this "knob" you all are talking about.
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#7586699 - 03/04/14 01:48 PM Re: which is better? [Re: ]
chef Offline
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Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 23758
Loc: The OC
 Originally Posted By: GSParker
 Originally Posted By: MetalheaD
Put it in manual and leave it there until you fully understand how the fucking camera works

While this may work for some, it doesn't for all.

I know plenty about how my camera works and I rarely use manual mode. I only use it when I know my exposures will fluctuate and I don't want them to, or i'm using off camera lighting. Otherwise, it hinders what i'm doing than helps.

Learn the camera, definitely, but use the method that works for you. Full manual may not be it.
I think he's just suggesting that he learn all the stuff that the camera does, how exposure works, etc, before choosing a mode, like you have. Once you know how the modes work and what does what, it's easy to adjust for your desired effect rather than being at the mercy of Auto.
_________________________
Why choose mac? "Well, huh, might as, might as well ask why is a tree good? Why is the sunset good? Why are boobs good?" RRLSi
"put that money into a new imac damn it. it's the bomb" jsmonet
"This all fuckin' day. Feel the 900MB/sec of glory. It's like a digital money shot all over your face." RRLSi
Order my photo prints (New files uploaded)

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#7587300 - 03/04/14 06:42 PM Re: which is better? [Re: chef]
LNXGUY Offline
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Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 106838
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
Worry about aperture and see what it does to your pics, then shutter, then worry about manual. Coming from a relative newb, this is the easiest way to do things..
_________________________
-Bill
The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children.
'09 E90 335d

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#7587370 - 03/04/14 07:53 PM Re: which is better? [Re: LNXGUY]
Duc Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 35381
Loc: MD
thanks Bill
_________________________
BigAl: there is a huge difference between working out to be healthy, and ingesting 10 protein shakes a day, creatine, roids, etc.
JoeyBalls: Yup. That's why I said I workout to look good. If i wanted to be healthy. I'd swim.


..you can NEVER out train a bad diet -- FitExcellence

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#7587387 - 03/04/14 08:02 PM Re: which is better? [Re: Duc]
LNXGUY Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 106838
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
This is how I did it man, and I still shoot Av 95% of the time. I'm no pro but I do ok \:\)
_________________________
-Bill
The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children.
'09 E90 335d

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