#7100310 - 05/31/13 06:33 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ScottStaypuff]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: E.E.B.
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Oh hi, remember me?
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'94 Mustang GT Acceleration....  -------+--  Handling......... -------+-- Speed............ ------+---
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#7100750 - 06/01/13 12:09 AM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: UglyValiant]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: E.E.B.
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I'm really stoked with how the new shop is treating the engine. They went through the whole thing, retorqued everything, replaced what needed to be. On top of that they made it look like an engine that's got a lot of money into it, which it does. When it came out of the other shop, it leaked, and barely ran, all brackets were dirty. This time, everything is cleaned, parts are painted, they even went ahead and painted the bolt heads... I was thoroughly impressed, and I hope this is the taste of how the engine will run as well.
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#7111162 - 06/06/13 03:24 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ReplicaR]
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g96nt
Jr Poster
Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 132
Loc: Annapolis MD
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huzzaaaah!!!
There's a local guy that spent a crap load building a turbo mazda 6 engine, and when finished,the engine(although machined well) looked like any old junkyard engine on the outside. Even when I send a head out to be planed, my guy takes the time to hot tank it, and clean it, and generally. make it look "new".
Any engine leaving a machine shop should look like it's brand new, to me.
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2000 Saab 9-5 wagon
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#7121699 - 06/11/13 09:07 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ScottStaypuff]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: E.E.B.
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Nope. Shop fell behind on the work. It's been sitting doing nothing the past week. They sincerely apologized, and promised it to be complete, broken in and tuned end of next week.
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#7149003 - 06/27/13 01:20 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: UglyValiant]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: E.E.B.
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The motor is in the car, they are tying up some loose ends right now. Should be fired up either today or tomorrow, then break in, and then power tune. I'm guessing it will be done by the end of next week.
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#7158721 - 07/03/13 01:34 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ScottStaypuff]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: E.E.B.
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So I called the shop, and got some news today. The car is not making the power I was looking for. The motor peaks closer to 6k now, but it's down on power under curve by comparison to previous camshaft. It lost torque, it lost drivability, it lost start up... I'm not in a happy place right now. Other than higher peak, it's a step back in every way. In short, higher flowing intake manifold, more aggressive camshaft, removal of cats, cold air intake have actually lost me power.
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#7159832 - 07/04/13 08:52 AM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ReplicaR]
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madmatt
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 24844
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car is cursed...what the hell man
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#7160065 - 07/04/13 11:22 AM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: madmatt]
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LNXGUY
Tougher than Logan Roy
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 107852
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
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This is the norcal story of SVA, I'm convinced.
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-Bill The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children. Left foot, right foot, just keep moving!!! -Jeffrey P. Murphy 
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#7160930 - 07/04/13 11:36 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ScottStaypuff]
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UglyValiant
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
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when you get a chance, see if you can get a printout of the dyno up on here...
I'm guessing we're looking at a different dyno than was used before? Same type (ie, dynojet/mustang)?
Don't take a long walk off a short pier just yet...all issues are solveable, and some might not even be issues per se.
Let's see what's up.
But even more importantly, run it...see how it drives, how it pulls. I, for one, believe "under the curve" is an entirely overused phrase that doesn't mean as much as many believe it to. Under the curve may be desireable in engine building dyno competitions, but the reality is that peaky engines can be just as, if not more stout than many with the "area under the curve" advantage...because aside from the 1-2 shift, many/most cars don't drop too many rpm's from 2nd-3rd, 3nd-4th where many/most road races occur, and a majority of the time drag racing is spent.
Let's see it.
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1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck
1989 Shelby CSX (#500/500)
The most powerful production minivan money can buy.
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#7161527 - 07/05/13 11:11 AM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: UglyValiant]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: E.E.B.
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You guys wanted to see the dyno. Well, here it is.
Same exact dyno machine, the difference is the mods listed previously. The cams are labeled, and it is very clear that at any given engine speed, the new cam makes way less power, and a giant amount less of torque. I did not even bother driving it, because there is no point. This is a huge step back. I should not have to pay a lot of money, to get my car back slower than it was originally.
I've already decided what I'm going to do. They are pulling that camshaft out, and I will order a custom cam from Ed Curtis (massive reputation on Corral), based on the build specs of the engine.
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#7162074 - 07/05/13 04:01 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ReplicaR]
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UglyValiant
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
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Wow...this sucks. No getting around it...you were MUCH better off with the original XE282 HR.
What were the final specs on the cam? I saw only that the builder wanted to tighten up the LSA and "Square up" the cam (I'm guessing even up duration/lift b/w intake and exhaust).
From the looks of it, it looks as if you've given up a ton of dynamic compression.
It says "304HR" so I'm guessing they spec'd 304 hyd roller intake lobe? If they "squared it up" and running on a 110 LSA, that's a LOT of cam (244 deg duration @ .050!) for such a little engine, especially a fuel injected one with very good heads. And you're already hurting for low-end torque w/o long tubes! The guy who selected the lobes went a bit wild, holy hell!
I'm still a fan of something in the 228-232 range, 112-110 lsa range on the intake side. Make sure whoever is specing your new cam, send him these dyno graphs...
I'm a big believer in specing cams a little on the small side...especially against what most suggest, especially when running good heads. A great recipe for street/strip engines are great heads and smaller cam....
I'm running heads that flow 300+cfm and am running a 228/236 @ .050 cam, 109lsa cam, ground with 3 degrees advance, slightly small carb, and even with undersized headers still put 378hp through a fairly loose converter/heavy auto trans and truck rear end. With the new stepped headers and ignition I am hoping to sniff 400whp...
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1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck
1989 Shelby CSX (#500/500)
The most powerful production minivan money can buy.
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#7162114 - 07/05/13 04:22 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: UglyValiant]
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UglyValiant
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
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You know, it's funny...I've got the comp camquest engine sim program. I can select either off the shelf comp xe282hr or select a 304HR...and it pretty much shows exactly what we see here. (331 ci, using 5.0 trick flow intake, small long tube headers w/o cats and AFR 185 heads and using it's recorded flow data, 10.5 compression)
With the xe282, you get peak flywheel HP (and likely more in line with "gross" rating too) of 513hp @ 6500rpm, and peak torque of 447 @ 5000rpm.
Switch to the 304 HR and you get 501hp @ 7000rpm and 424ft-lbs of torque at 5500rpm with very similar looking power-bands.
286 HR nets you 515hp/450ft-lbs of torque. (this was the single highest HP I saw from the various available cams with the combo I spec above and specs 230/230 @.050 110 lsa, ground w/ 4 degrees advance)
XE274 hr nets you 501/456 with a nice wide power band.
XE 276 hr almost the exact same as the xe 274.
xe 270 HR 495/457 w/ power peaking at 6000 rpm.
xe266 HR 485/453 with probably the fattest looking powerband.
I mean, these aren't exact...but I've always found them helpful for changing and comparing...and it usually works out as I expect it too, though sometimes it can show sharply diverging info from what I expect...
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1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck
1989 Shelby CSX (#500/500)
The most powerful production minivan money can buy.
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#7163390 - 07/06/13 05:35 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: GB]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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At this point I'd say run it at the track, fuck it. Sometimes dynos are off.
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Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso 
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#7163552 - 07/06/13 08:28 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: stickaz_old]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: E.E.B.
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I'm getting a custom cam already. Supposed to be one of the top guys for cams on Corral, Ed Curtis from FTI
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#7163584 - 07/06/13 08:48 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ReplicaR]
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stickaz_old
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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Cool, I have the comp cam 274hr on my 302, seemed ok (318 rwhp, 115 traps at 3100# race weight)
He actually told me to just run the 274 , heh
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Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#7166893 - 07/09/13 02:41 AM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: hustler]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: E.E.B.
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Hustler, thanks for input. This place really does feel like home. Just to think that people didn't like me here 8 years ago.
Valiant, no specs yet. I'll let FTI figure it out, and run it once I get it. I'm sure it will be awesome, judging by an overwhelming positive feedback on Corral
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#7174603 - 07/12/13 11:36 AM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ReplicaR]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: E.E.B.
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Got the specs. More lift than ever at .613, and less duration than I've had before, even with the XE282HR. Look like some fast aggressive ramps. This should be interesting. LSA is at 111.
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#7174836 - 07/12/13 01:08 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: UglyValiant]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: E.E.B.
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Yeah, centerline is 108.
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#7181700 - 07/16/13 06:20 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ScottStaypuff]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: E.E.B.
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I've spent specs to Valiant, so hopefully he'll be able to mock it up. Camshaft should be shipping this week, hopefully.
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