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#4722092 - 05/05/10 04:29 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: SiAdam]
danl Offline
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Loc: Maryland USA
http://forums.evolutionm.net/8267750-post1.html


The evo above makes 401 whp, is probably 3250 with driver, and runs 10.80's at 123. So I'm pretty confident my evo is only 325-350whp. You are probably going to need at a minimum a 1.8 sixty to run your 10 in the s2000 and a 135mph or better trap to go with it. If you can get it down to 1.6 territory you should be able to do it at high 120 or low 130mph. This of course depends on how hard you hit the gears.
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#4722809 - 05/05/10 08:53 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: danl]
SiAdam Offline
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I was shifting easy @ the track...and I shift easy on the street too.
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#4722829 - 05/05/10 09:00 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: SiAdam]
Euphoricuck Offline
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i think he could roll out the hole easy and still trap 130 mph
*provided hes not dancing down the track lol wheel spin*


640 whp in a 2800lb car is cookin
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#4722851 - 05/05/10 09:08 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: SiAdam]
cliff st-clair Offline
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Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
I guess you really can't compare awd dyno numbers to 2wd dyno numbers. Jeez.
My Civic when it had exactly 400whp ran a best of 11.5@123mph with a 2.0 60' How the heavier evo traps almost the same with about the same power is beyond me.
I'm guessing Adam's car definitely has power to be deep in the 10s, but he has to put the power down. The factory gearing is going to hurt. I would run a slick that has a wider diameter than stock.
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#4722905 - 05/05/10 09:35 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: cliff st-clair]
danl Offline
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Loc: Maryland USA
Agreed, go down on rim size as much as you can and go at least 1" over stock tire OD if not 2". Slicks do grow on the top end which gives you a couple mph of "diameter".

I don't think it is dyno numbers but rather how the hondas make and put down the power vs how a mitsubishi does it. 650-700whp on mustang dyno in an evo goes bottom 9's at 2800-2900 lbs.

I see that 10 second S2000 linked above. So is that just factory rear end gears? Are they treated? Blueprinted? Anybody have any links or pictures of the factory rear end apart?
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“ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway?

the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.”
-Rex B16, June 11 2024

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#4723232 - 05/05/10 11:22 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: danl]
Euphoricuck Offline
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Registered: 11/05/03
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that evo is nice. love the manual!
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#4724386 - 05/06/10 11:54 AM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: danl]
SiAdam Offline
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Posts: 19264
Loc: West By God Virginia
Don't know if you saw that I posted earlier DanL, but the gear ratio's are on the first couple of pages, and the rear end is a 4.10 from the factory!!
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
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#4724812 - 05/06/10 01:59 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: SiAdam]
danl Offline
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Loc: Maryland USA
Yeah I saw that. If you can go 130 in the stock 5th gear you are going to want to run a slightly larger tire. Also the trap is the last 10 yards average speed, so your actual speed at the finish line can be 2 mph higher than the start of the trap area. Plan your tire size for 140mph.
_________________________
“ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway?

the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.”
-Rex B16, June 11 2024

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#4724919 - 05/06/10 02:18 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: Euphoricuck]
00OldSi Offline
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Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1181
Loc: DC
Well done A! Awesome!

A friend's street driven S2K 10sec daily driver. Recently sold though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7YbTWY2zjc
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2488030
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#4726356 - 05/06/10 11:03 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: danl]
SiAdam Offline
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Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19264
Loc: West By God Virginia
 Originally Posted By: danl
Yeah I saw that. If you can go 130 in the stock 5th gear you are going to want to run a slightly larger tire. Also the trap is the last 10 yards average speed, so your actual speed at the finish line can be 2 mph higher than the start of the trap area. Plan your tire size for 140mph.


I can step down to a stock AP1 s2k rim w/is 16".

Not sure @ that point what I should look into.
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#4727857 - 05/07/10 01:59 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: SiAdam]
danl Offline
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Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12783
Loc: Maryland USA
I ran a 16" rim my first time around in 26" OD. I now run a 15" rim and love the extra sidewall cushion. I know this isn't a good picture and my car doesen't leave well, but to be honest it isn't set up correctly, hasn't ever had an alignment, and I just don't spend the time on it anymore:



I cut a high 1.8 sixty in that picture with no prep, no burnout, and a 60 deg F day. That *really* isn't bad even though I fully realize that everybody on club si cuts 1.6's on stock corvette runflats /sarcasm. What you want is tire wrinkle like I have in that picture. That saves parts and aides in traction.

I *really* like the Mickey thompson ET Drags if you want to get away with no burnout or little burnout. They don't need to be smoking hot to grip well. They wrinkle well, and so far my friends AWD nor my FWD have ever wheel hopped on them.
_________________________
“ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway?

the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.”
-Rex B16, June 11 2024

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#4727924 - 05/07/10 02:31 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: danl]
FCobra94 Offline
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Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 19689
Loc: MD
Dan, since we're on the topic, I'm just curious: given the power level of your DSM, etc. what RPM do you leave at? What's the launch like, in terms of tire spin, etc.? Just curious for some reason...

I also find it interesting that you've found LESS broken parts when using slicks; I always figured that it was the other way around for most cars. Especially those with weak half-shafts, etc.
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#4728243 - 05/07/10 04:17 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: FCobra94]
Euphoricuck Offline
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Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
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wheel hop ruins parts
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#4728363 - 05/07/10 05:12 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: Euphoricuck]
danl Offline
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Registered: 07/14/00
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Loc: Maryland USA
Think of wheel hop as an impact wrench. Those sharp peak pressure pulses destroy parts. If they don't break them the first time around they cause internal cracks which lead to failures in the future. It is true that with a slick you can leave with much more traction but the torque is evenly distributed onto the drivetrain over time. It does not hammer it with short high frequency events. I'd rather launch my car 50 times than wheel hop a single launch. I've been racing my DSM since 2001. In the early days I did 100 passes a year. I am down to 60 passes a year now just due to the fact that I don't have as much time anymore. Out of all those passes and all those years I never broke a part with slicks. My car flat out NEVER broke unless I was on street tires AND wheel hopping. I can count on both hands how many times I have wheel hopped and I broke two times out of all the fingers I have. In a FWD it is extremely difficult to break parts with big sidewall slicks.

Now my buddy with the AWD, his foot slipped off the clutch our last time out and he put the drive shaft on the ground because of it. A RWD car should be careful because you can dead hook and tear stuff out with brute force. FWD cars tend to just unload and not break stuff. Now I'm sure the top dog FWD cars with 45" slicks can break stuff and dead hook, but the average unibody FWD car can't. Still, even on a AWD or RWD car I'd run slicks and just slip the clutch like you are supposed to. Quick slip and no sidestep.

Fcobra, launches are like riding on a pillow. I can do hundreds of launches and not hurt parts. I leave at 5000rpms at quarter throttle. Here is an in car pass that I had a lot of *issues* on. First spun, second spun then I peddled it, then I missed third (and found out later my trans was damaged). Then I just bumped the rev limiter at the top of third (something like 122-124mph) and coasted through the traps because I knew I wasn't advancing to the next round.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p14rR1Ehrss&feature=related
_________________________
“ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway?

the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.”
-Rex B16, June 11 2024

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#4728932 - 05/07/10 11:26 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: danl]
cliff st-clair Offline
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Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
dan I wish I listened to you when i was dragging my civic. I had baby slicks on it (22x15x8) and experienced too much wheelhop. I now know why.
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03' 350z
04' Mazda 3 s

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#4729515 - 05/08/10 12:02 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: cliff st-clair]
danl Offline
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Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12783
Loc: Maryland USA
Well I'm not saying that you couldn't still have wheel hop, but it helps a lot. Also if you have big sidewalls and this matches the natural frequency that your suspensions would like to oscillate at you can run into problems. Of course you need good bushings up front, a good front diff, good shocks, no slop in any of your suspension etc. You also need to have a good clutch and know how to use it. I preload my drivetrain with the hand brake to take the initial slap shock out of the picture. I basically put it on the 2 step, wind it up, preload the car to get the turbo whistling a bit, and let it out briskly. Its like winding up a rubber band and letting it go. My launches don't set the world on fire, but I haven't broken any parts related to launching.
_________________________
“ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway?

the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.”
-Rex B16, June 11 2024

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#4731408 - 05/09/10 06:52 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: danl]
FCobra94 Offline
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Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 19689
Loc: MD
Do EVO's suffer the same fate if launched? I'm assuming that the clutch will hate life with anything more the stock power levels, but I'm assuming that they are just as susceptible to wheel hop...??? What tends to break first on those cars?
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'07 335i

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#4731441 - 05/09/10 07:12 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: FCobra94]
danl Offline
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Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12783
Loc: Maryland USA
What breaks first on an evo?

On the early evos with open front diffs it would be the spider gears in this front diff. This diff actually lives in the TX case so you get a double hit because you usually take out the ring and pinion in the tx case which getrag (who makes the tx case) does not sell parts to. So you must buy a new tx case. I know the evo IX and I think the 2005 evo's had a factory front LSD. Usually you need an aftermarket clutch and some more power to spin the tires enough to wheel hop. A motor mount insert like I have in my evo got rid of all the wheel hop for me.

Other than that what you break basically depends on how big of a moron you are. With a twin or triple disc clutch the sky is the limit as to what you can break. However evo's are very nice and very durable. They are extremely easy to make damm near bullitproof as long as you have a little common sense.
_________________________
“ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway?

the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.”
-Rex B16, June 11 2024

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#4732011 - 05/09/10 11:37 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: danl]
progressi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9134
 Originally Posted By: danl
Well I'm not saying that you couldn't still have wheel hop, but it helps a lot. Also if you have big sidewalls and this matches the natural frequency that your suspensions would like to oscillate at you can run into problems. Of course you need good bushings up front, a good front diff, good shocks, no slop in any of your suspension etc. You also need to have a good clutch and know how to use it. I preload my drivetrain with the hand brake to take the initial slap shock out of the picture. I basically put it on the 2 step, wind it up, preload the car to get the turbo whistling a bit, and let it out briskly. Its like winding up a rubber band and letting it go. My launches don't set the world on fire, but I haven't broken any parts related to launching.

Yeah,my Civic Si (dont look at me Sirkid!) wheelhopped forever. Motor mounts and even traction bars did nothing but slightly exacerbate it,but still it never fully went away. One time I tried my buddy's drag radials (Nittos) and it helped huge,but my car would bog. lolthestruggles

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#4732014 - 05/09/10 11:40 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: danl]
progressi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9134
 Originally Posted By: danl
What breaks first on an evo?

On the early evos with open front diffs it would be the spider gears in this front diff. This diff actually lives in the TX case so you get a double hit because you usually take out the ring and pinion in the tx case which getrag (who makes the tx case) does not sell parts to. So you must buy a new tx case. I know the evo IX and I think the 2005 evo's had a factory front LSD. Usually you need an aftermarket clutch and some more power to spin the tires enough to wheel hop. A motor mount insert like I have in my evo got rid of all the wheel hop for me.

Other than that what you break basically depends on how big of a moron you are. With a twin or triple disc clutch the sky is the limit as to what you can break. However evo's are very nice and very durable. They are extremely easy to make damm near bullitproof as long as you have a little common sense.
Texas case? ;\) Just kidding. He asked if Evos wheelhop. I thought I was going to be cool one time and I launched pretty hard on an LS1 Fbod in the rain and I wheelhopped pretty bad,but it went away.

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#4732015 - 05/09/10 11:40 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: progressi]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57156
Yeah, the struggles \:\(

At the b16 was relatively smooth. Try stiff motor mounts in a neon lol \:\(
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"On the street where there is no lap timer, feel is all that matters" - scootergeek
"A bunch of nerdy douchebags chasing a ghost." -Ob1 on bitcoin

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#4732032 - 05/09/10 11:47 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: NOT spotch...]
progressi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9134
d
 Originally Posted By: spotch
Yeah, the struggles \:\(

At the b16 was relatively smooth. Try stiff motor mounts in a neon lol \:\(
Hahah,I think I did more damage to my relationship with Scootergeek for liking the 2G Neon. HAH!

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#4732347 - 05/10/10 08:29 AM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: progressi]
SiAdam Offline
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Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19264
Loc: West By God Virginia
No real updates here..haven't driven the car 10 mins since the tune.

Suddenly developed a high idle, not it wasn't a boost leak, already pressure tested the system.

After some research, I see it's the IACV, which is a common issue on these cars, I wasn't aware of, and I'm betting the meth doesn't help the issue.

Had to order a new one, $154 bucks, ouch!!
_________________________
05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#4734224 - 05/10/10 07:00 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: SiAdam]
danl Offline
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Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12783
Loc: Maryland USA
You use meth, that shit is no good for you or your car. Take a good hard look at your brake booster............
_________________________
“ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway?

the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.”
-Rex B16, June 11 2024

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#4734664 - 05/10/10 09:43 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: danl]
SiAdam Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19264
Loc: West By God Virginia
 Originally Posted By: danl
You use meth, that shit is no good for you or your car. Take a good hard look at your brake booster............


Why?
_________________________
05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#4734809 - 05/10/10 10:23 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: SiAdam]
Euphoricuck Offline
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Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
On stock rubber my ol Si wheel hopped like mad. i still stayed in that bitch though \:D

i added a solid rear mount insert and that cut it down a lot. even my azenis(bad drag racing tire) didnt hop much.(I also had a decent clutch)

small slicks was fine on my car n/a . no hop. (nor bogging...wtf learn to drive)

boosted you should be running big slicks like dan has pointed out.
any of the big boosted fwd guys have always run big slicks though. way back since i can remember they ahve been.

i even remember giving danl a bit of a hard time when he posted up pics of his car with its first slick set up(small side wall iirc).
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#4734900 - 05/10/10 10:58 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: Euphoricuck]
progressi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9134
Yeah,I tried to stay in it but I ended up with rattles in my dash. \:\(
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#4734902 - 05/10/10 10:59 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: SiAdam]
progressi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9134
 Originally Posted By: SiAdam
 Originally Posted By: danl
You use meth, that shit is no good for you or your car. Take a good hard look at your brake booster............


Why?

Im guessing since it pulls vacuum,that somehow the effects of running meth in the engine are bad for the seals in it? Maybe bad for the vacuum line on the hose. This is getting good!

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#4734955 - 05/10/10 11:23 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: progressi]
SiAdam Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19264
Loc: West By God Virginia
 Originally Posted By: progressi
 Originally Posted By: SiAdam
 Originally Posted By: danl
You use meth, that shit is no good for you or your car. Take a good hard look at your brake booster............


Why?

Im guessing since it pulls vacuum,that somehow the effects of running meth in the engine are bad for the seals in it? Maybe bad for the vacuum line on the hose. This is getting good!


But when it's spraying their is no vacuum?

It only comes on during positive pressure, so therefore it shouldn't be sucked into the rest of teh system.
_________________________
05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#4735006 - 05/10/10 11:43 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: progressi]
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
 Originally Posted By: progressi
Yeah,I tried to stay in it but I ended up with rattles in my dash. \:\(
ya man. its almost like you are gonna eat dash. but just stay in it(first gear) and it goes away. and you rip 14's mang. you totally missed out
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#4735030 - 05/10/10 11:49 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: SiAdam]
progressi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9134
 Originally Posted By: SiAdam
 Originally Posted By: progressi
 Originally Posted By: SiAdam
 Originally Posted By: danl
You use meth, that shit is no good for you or your car. Take a good hard look at your brake booster............


Why?

Im guessing since it pulls vacuum,that somehow the effects of running meth in the engine are bad for the seals in it? Maybe bad for the vacuum line on the hose. This is getting good!


But when it's spraying their is no vacuum?

It only comes on during positive pressure, so therefore it shouldn't be sucked into the rest of teh system.
No,but you get combustion byproducts after you drop the throttle,right? Catch can?

Dont kill the messenger. Im just guessing at what Dan's leading on. lol

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#4735034 - 05/10/10 11:50 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: Euphoricuck]
progressi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9134
 Originally Posted By: Euphoric
 Originally Posted By: progressi
Yeah,I tried to stay in it but I ended up with rattles in my dash. \:\(
ya man. its almost like you are gonna eat dash. but just stay in it(first gear) and it goes away. and you rip 14's mang. you totally missed out
HAHAHAHa I ran 14s! I didnt miss out. I was so happy,but it required a ton of mods to get there. lolstockCivicawholesecondfasterthanthebestmagtimesever

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#4735107 - 05/11/10 12:46 AM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: progressi]
Euphoricuck Offline
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Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
all I had was i/e.
(ok and a clutch but by that time it was long past mileage for a stock clutch but it helped)

i never got to run it with a decent header or cams(i had itrs i was gonna toss in. mods are so cheap these days for those cars)
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#4738970 - 05/12/10 09:09 AM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: Euphoricuck]
SiAdam Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19264
Loc: West By God Virginia
I picked up a set of AP1 rims for the track this year.

Seems thats what the guys are running...they are 16's..still clear the brakes and allow for a decent sidewall.

Looks like most are running MT's.
_________________________
05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#4740298 - 05/12/10 03:18 PM Re: 05 S2K - New Numbers 640whp / 418wtq [Re: SiAdam]
danl Offline
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Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12783
Loc: Maryland USA
Make sure your rear end is nice and stiff (any bushings etc..).
_________________________
“ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway?

the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.”
-Rex B16, June 11 2024

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