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#5980647 - 12/07/11 03:45 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: Dope!]
HX_Guy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Dope!
 Originally Posted By: OBGYN1
15lbs in 7 months? I mean, great you're getting there...but I'm curious as to why you could accomplish that in the first 4-8 weeks.


This. Not that it's the right way to go about doing things, but I could easily drop 10-15lbs in 2 weeks just doing a low carb/high protein diet like atkins.


Did you see my reply afterwards?
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#5980719 - 12/07/11 04:13 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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 Originally Posted By: OBGYN1
15lbs in 7 months? I mean, great you're getting there...but I'm curious as to why you could accomplish that in the first 4-8 weeks.


doubtful
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#6048857 - 01/09/12 02:11 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: HX_Guy]
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Week 16 Update

A bit of a different update since after the 12 weeks of lifting 3x per week, I took 4 weeks off over the holidays and ate quite a bit.

Surprisingly, my weight is actually lower than my Week 12 update (177.4lbs vs 180.0lbs) but I actually think I may have lost a bit of muscle looking at the pictures.

Today I am starting a whole new routine, Starting Strength, so it's like a total reset and and sort of a new "Week 0". I'm going to come back and update with my starting weights tonight so it helps me keep track when looking back on this in the future.

Here are the update photos, though they really aren't much different than the Week 12 photos, but I might as well be consistent.


Total Progess: Diet + 12 Weeks of Lifting + 4 Weeks Off

Side: http://nitnelav.com/Body/Mouseover/Week%2016/NoDiet_16weeks_side.html

Front: http://nitnelav.com/Body/Mouseover/Week%2016/NoDiet_16weeks_front.html

16 Weeks (12 weeks lifting + 4 weeks off)

Side: http://nitnelav.com/Body/Mouseover/Week%2016/0to16weeks_side.html

Front: http://nitnelav.com/Body/Mouseover/Week%2016/0to16weeks_front.html
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#6049101 - 01/09/12 03:26 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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 Originally Posted By: OBGYN1
What is? I lost a pound a day nearly for the first 2 weeks. 3 months concluded 40lbs.

Not everyone needs to be that hardcore though...


How much did you weigh before?
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#6049445 - 01/09/12 05:27 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
Puck Offline
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Height?

40 pounds in 3 months, roughly .45 pounds a day. That's a 1,575 calorie deficit a day, in order to pull that off.

What percentage of your weight loss would you attribute to a diet change vs. exercise program?

I'd imagine you were doing at least an hour-hour 1/2 of cardio a day?
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#6049540 - 01/09/12 06:23 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: Puck]
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Don't forget that about 8-10 lbs of that is probably water.
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#6049632 - 01/09/12 07:01 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: Silock]
Puck Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Silock
Don't forget that about 8-10 lbs of that is probably water.


Yup.

I'm curious how much was exercise vs. diet.

I watch some of these "I used to be fat" shows, and it amazes me what some of these people are accomplishing i.e. working out 5-6 hours a day and losing a pound a day. Pretty ridiculous.
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#6050502 - 01/10/12 01:58 AM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: Puck]
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I'd say that 80% of my weight loss has been purely excercise. There was only a few times where I focused on my diet...the rest of the time I ate what I wanted, just never gorged myself.
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#6050551 - 01/10/12 02:56 AM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: Sir Ironpool]
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Just exercise can go a looooooong way. But, you'll never get below about 15% or so if you aren't watching you diet (unless you're training like Michael Phelps or something).
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#6050944 - 01/10/12 10:50 AM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
Artvandelay
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You're like a totally new different person. You look a lot younger.
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#6051019 - 01/10/12 11:27 AM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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Officially 176.7lbs this morning which is my lowest weight since I was probably 15-16 years old (almost 31 now). \:D And it's only Tuesday, I can see that dropping to 176.0 or maybe even lower by the weekend.

Graph shows 02/20/10 - 01/10/12, previous low spot was 176.9lbs.
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#6051524 - 01/10/12 01:55 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: HX_Guy]
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Don't want to threadjack but OB, that's an awesome transformation... you look "unhealthy" in the pic where you are the lightest... Good work...
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#6068171 - 01/17/12 01:57 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: DieZel]
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Officially 175.0lbs this morning, and as you can see from the chart, that was my "objective" in my mind when I started the diet...but as many of you said, I would get there and it wouldn't be enough...and sure enough it isn't. \:\/ The flab is still there...I don't know how light I need to go to get rid of it...165? 155? I'm freaking 6'1"!

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#6068593 - 01/17/12 04:04 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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Adding on what OB said. HX_Guy, there isn't much muscle under your skin, so all of that is mostly fat. You could easily cut down to the 140's and start building muscle from there. You will look like Christian Bale in the Machinist though.
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#6069156 - 01/17/12 08:40 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: Back 5]
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Uh yea, don't want to look like this. Apparenlty we are about the same height...he weighed 121lbs in the movie. Crazy shit.



This part of the diet sucks...I like my weight (number) but I'm unhappy with how much fat I still have around my middle section...though my legs and arms are pretty thin (I think) plus my face is starting to look pretty thin which I don't really like.

My body composition is shit though. \:\/

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#6069320 - 01/17/12 09:51 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: HX_Guy]
dirtyS13drifta
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I'm suprised that's 18.8%

Like you've said, you look soft.
Sure you're thinner. you want muscle. It's always been what you want.

My advice? for what little it's worth?
Do your S.S, stop ultra low calorie.
Don't go apeshit, but at least to maintenance level. I'm not sure why you ever worried about getting down to 175 while still not lifting hard, building some muscle. Why are you fixated on the scale, focus on how you feel and look. I'm sorry, but I feel like that's such a girl attitude. I've said it before and I'll say it again. height/weight doesn't tell you shit about how someone looks with their clothes off.

And Maybe OB1 can enlighten me too. Why if you're not obese, to cut down to some level before building muscle? Especially OB1 who cut down so much below his goal weight(right?) Wouldn't not yo-yoing have been less time, less stress on your body? Plus less extreme on your clothes fit?
I'm between you guys in weight/height and lean-ness and I focused on weights first. I feel like being strong was the priority, losing a few lbs(in total) is the end goal.



Edited by dirtyS13drifta (01/17/12 10:00 PM)

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#6069502 - 01/17/12 11:08 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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It's not so much that I'm fixated on the number...but when I weighed 194lbs, I thought in my mind that when I get down to 175lbs, I would look drastically different and I don't feel like I do. In the mirror I sort feel like I look the same. \:\/

I was a fat kid from 9 years old to 20 years old, the worst period in someone's life to be fat I believe so I am a bit obsessed with the fat part of it more than the muscle part...I hate the fat I have around my middle and would probably go the surgery route if I could afford in (not really...I'd be embarrassed to say I had surgery to lose weight, but just saying how much I hate the fat I have). \:\(

As for losing weight before building muscle, I've heard of this before too. I think the thought is that you can't really gain muscle with such low calories, and you can't lose fat with the calories needed for muscle building. You probably can, but it's probably a very fine line of where you have to be an it may just be easier to do one and then the other.

I also feel that if say you are 18% body fat and say 180lbs and you eat enough to build muscle and lift...you will put on weight (muscle) but you will still have your 18% body fat, so now you just look stocky vs lean/slim/muscular.
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#6070089 - 01/18/12 10:26 AM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: HX_Guy]
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Dude, you're not going to get that "lean" look until you build muscle. It's not like you're going to touch some heavy weights and your all of a sudden going to be this bulky dude, doesn't happen. You'll burn the remaining fat you have faster if you put on some lean mass.
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#6070127 - 01/18/12 10:42 AM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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Art is right.
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#6070185 - 01/18/12 11:19 AM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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 Originally Posted By: Artvandelay
Dude, you're not going to get that "lean" look until you build muscle. It's not like you're going to touch some heavy weights and your all of a sudden going to be this bulky dude, doesn't happen. You'll burn the remaining fat you have faster if you put on some lean mass.




Hah, I didn't mean that if I touch some weights I'm going to look like this bulky dude...was just saying why I think people do the weight loss first and then the lifting, so that they don't end up looking all stocky.

Freaking 174.4lbs this morning, I'm dropping weight like a sick person, it's kind of weird.
I have actually upped my calories the last week by a couple hundred to ~1400/day and still dropping weight.

I'm doing SS though, as prescribed, so it's not as if I'm not lifting weights, though it still feels pretty light but I understand it's a gradual thing. We'll see what happens when I reach some heavier weights and if I can do them.
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#6070200 - 01/18/12 11:23 AM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: HX_Guy]
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Keep it up. The point of the program is to build you up to actual heavy weight with good form. You'll get there.


I'm telling you, if a fat dude starts packing on lean mass, he'll lose fat along the way. The whole bulk/cut thing is really more for advanced lifters. Once you get near your bodies natural limits, you have to make drastic changes to your diet and routine to get more results. The average skinny guy and average fat guy should both be looking to add muscle.

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#6070210 - 01/18/12 11:25 AM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
I'm suprised that's 18.8%

Like you've said, you look soft.
Sure you're thinner. you want muscle. It's always been what you want.

My advice? for what little it's worth?
Do your S.S, stop ultra low calorie.
Don't go apeshit, but at least to maintenance level. I'm not sure why you ever worried about getting down to 175 while still not lifting hard, building some muscle. Why are you fixated on the scale, focus on how you feel and look. I'm sorry, but I feel like that's such a girl attitude. I've said it before and I'll say it again. height/weight doesn't tell you shit about how someone looks with their clothes off.

And Maybe OB1 can enlighten me too. Why if you're not obese, to cut down to some level before building muscle? Especially OB1 who cut down so much below his goal weight(right?) Wouldn't not yo-yoing have been less time, less stress on your body? Plus less extreme on your clothes fit?
I'm between you guys in weight/height and lean-ness and I focused on weights first. I feel like being strong was the priority, losing a few lbs(in total) is the end goal.



This absolutely is my current opinion as well. But easy for me to say because I did basically what it is your currently doing which was drop 20lbs to a fucking TINY 165lbs at 6ft tall in order to 'be ripped'. My wife was constantly giving me shit about looking like a cancer patient. I mean, I honestly am happy that I did it as it was the first time in my life I ever really had visible abs and it got me started with fitness again. But it just wasn't ultimately where I wanted to be forever and if I had it to do again I wouldn't have wasted that first year or more dicking around with trying to be/stay lean at the expense of getting stronger and eating more.

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#6071506 - 01/18/12 07:27 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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people make me laugh when they do the whole "lose fat" and "build muscle" into 2 different categories... you should always be trying to do both simultaneously... proper diet and hard training will remove fat from your ass...

UNLESS you are taking in a large caloric surplus you are not going to end up some big bulky dude...

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#6071527 - 01/18/12 07:41 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: DieZel]
dirtyS13drifta
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I guess I can sort of understand Val's perspective.
As a smaller build guy my whole life I can't imagine try to lose weight without having muscles hiding underneath. You're coming from the other side.
But I hear what you're saying (a little) on bulky. Even being small and adding just a 10-ish pounds from what I used to sit at and my clothes start barely fitting. That said, bulky and muscly is notably different than no muscly. Shoulders & chest rather than belly and mid-section, etc.



I guess I look as it as more of a spectrum in the middle regarding "bulking" or "cutting". I'm not going to win body building competitions so there's no need to go nuts.
I'm 31 and I can't imagine that super high calorie diets or super low are healthy. I'm surprised how far some of you guys will take it.

It's interesting that both you guys say maybe you didn't need to as much down. Especially OB1 who's found it's hard to add "pure" muscle so you always get a little softness back when you're adding.(doesn't need to get out of hand though).

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#6071567 - 01/18/12 08:09 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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Gypsy, don't take my progress as normal either. When I graduated high school I was very strong and very very lean (which led to a lot of my injuries, another story). I was the same height, 5'9" I weighed 155 pounds and I was running roughly 8% body fat. I was benching 260 as my max 1rm, squats were 525x4 (but this was only to parallel, I didn't know of starting strength back then) and I could power clean a ton as well.

Then I obviously didn't train as hard as I was when I was a full time athlete. I still hit the gym and weights 3-4 months a year but I added a good layer of fat over the muscle.

So, I have a lot of muscle memory over the years. That's why I can shed the fat and you see me as looking fit. You don't have that muscle layer underneath.

In Bovine terms. You were the veal and I was the bull. There is a huge difference in upbringing there. The veal calf that didn't get slaughtered will look dramatically different than the bull who had full range to roam.

Get it?
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#6071615 - 01/18/12 08:35 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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Thanks everyone for all the comments...it's a lot of info and as you guys pointed out, it really is different for every person and has a lot to do with their background as well, "muscle memory" and all that.

I need to pick H Street NW's brain a bit more...he seems to be the closest scenario to me (where he looked quite "soft" when he started his diet).
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#6071625 - 01/18/12 08:42 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
dirtyS13drifta
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 Originally Posted By: OBGYN1
It's hard to find that sweet spot in your diet of bulking and not gaining fat. I haven't found it. Therefore it is 2 separate categories in my mind, and in reality. Even though you can do both. I dropped my weight rather quickly and felt better as a result. I'd do it again too. Although I'd prolly start lifting sooner than going to the bottom in weight before trying to grow in muscle. It's easier to monitor your diet when your fat is gone. Speaking from the POV of a newb trying to learn all of this in a sea of info that's good and bad.

People need to remember that most people in these shoes are ignorant. Therefore they don't have experience, knowledge or trust that any system works. So they find something and work it until they're comfortable and then try more. It's just human nature.


I haven't particularly found it. but simply lifting harder has resulted in me gaining tone and weight at the same time(simply gaining muscle really). But I know they only way I get more definition from this point is running and not gaining more weight. But ultimately I'm ok being a little soft as my bf% is still better than 12 months ago(ultimately even that was better than 7 years ago before I started running). My current goal would be about 5lbs more of muscle while getting my body ready for serious running. Then come Late april early may switching to running, dropping the 5lbs and just holding my strength while completing a few races.

I wasn't trying to pick on you btw. Just wondering what your reasons were. It seems like Val wasn't sure what to expect because he hadn't been his goal weight, so he had a bit of learning in that area. You knew a bit more what you were doing and simply wanted the weight gone.

Ultimately all of us are on a good program and in better shape than we were 12-18 months ago. Both of you have truly transformed your bodies too, so much props.

We're all learning along the way, and figuring out better methods as we went along.

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#6071644 - 01/18/12 08:51 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: HX_Guy]
Artvandelay
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 Quote:
I need to pick H Street NW's brain a bit more...he seems to be the closest scenario to me (where he looked quite "soft" when he started his diet).
No you don't.

Damn, some of you guys nerd the fuck out over shit. Listen, lift heavy, eat, run, repeat.


That's it

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#6071652 - 01/18/12 08:56 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
Back 5 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Artvandelay
 Quote:
I need to pick H Street NW's brain a bit more...he seems to be the closest scenario to me (where he looked quite "soft" when he started his diet).
No you don't.

Damn, some of you guys nerd the fuck out over shit. Listen, lift heavy, eat, run, repeat.


That's it

I know, lol.

When I walked into the weight room as a scrawny ass freshman weighing 120pounds wet, my coach didn't hand me an encyclopedia on biomechanics and nutrition. He pointed to the weights and told me to lift until I couldn't lift anymore, then he told me to run around the track until I couldn't run anymore. Good job, see you tomorrow.
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#6071704 - 01/18/12 09:16 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: Back 5]
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Eat, lift heavy, sleep. Rinse, repeat.

It's a very, very simple formula. But the body is very simple from a thermodynamics perspective. And also from a growing perspective.
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#6071727 - 01/18/12 09:24 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: Puck]
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I get the principles..it's just the details I get fuzzy about. I finally got the lifting part down...now the eating part, do I keep staying at ~1400 calories/day...do I increase?

Honestly the workload of the lifting seems very light right now but Im going to follow the program and if it says go gradual, that is what I am going to do...but it doesn't feel like I'm doing all this work where I need more calories.
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#6071738 - 01/18/12 09:28 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: HX_Guy]
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Dude, you have a lot of muscle to build. Is your deadline June 12, 2013 to look like Art? If the answer is no, you go to the gym and lift.

That's it.

Are you wanting to lose weight? Eat meals for a week and see if you lost weight. If you did, good job. If you didn't, eat less for a week and see if you lost weight.

That's it. There is no special formula or program to follow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FGZvFZdVbk


Edited by Back 5 (01/18/12 09:29 PM)
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#6071767 - 01/18/12 09:44 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: HX_Guy]
dirtyS13drifta
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 Originally Posted By: HX_Guy
I get the principles..it's just the details I get fuzzy about. I finally got the lifting part down...now the eating part, do I keep staying at ~1400 calories/day...do I increase?

Honestly the workload of the lifting seems very light right now but Im going to follow the program and if it says go gradual, that is what I am going to do...but it doesn't feel like I'm doing all this work where I need more calories.



Yes, it's easy at first. the first 2 weeks are about form and the little muscles you don't even feel. It is easy, definitely. It's partially recovery from your old "program".
You haven't been doing barbell bench, proper back squats, or deads have you? It's getting your body used to these motions and your neural pathways(people underestimate how much or nervous system effect our abilities).

By week 3-4 you'll start to feel like you're working abit, but still waiting. even near your old PR you won't be working much
week 4-5 you'll realize your old PR wasn't that hard afterall.
Week 5-7 you'll be damn, I'm a stud! I might need new clothes, my shoulders, chest and quads rock and my waist looks nice(not small, but leanish)
Week 8-whatever you'll be like, fuck these are hard
week whatever you'll have a reset maybe a few.

Even on your resets you'll be like hmm, not bad all over again.

It works.

Regarding calories. Don't be afraid to eat more. I can't tell you a magic amount. I know I added about 500-ish a day mostly in protein to my base diet(healthy-ish normal diet) and I barely gained a few pounds. I lost it the minute I stopped lifting and eating extra, but I look much different at 170 than I did on Nov 1 or June 1 at 170ish.

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#6071786 - 01/18/12 09:54 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: ]
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 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta

Yes, it's easy at first. the first 2 weeks are about form and the little muscles you don't even feel. It is easy, definitely. It's partially recovery from your old "program".
You haven't been doing barbell bench, proper back squats, or deads have you?


Did you mean to say "You hadn't been doing barbell bench...?" I was doing barbell bench 3x per week (decline, flat, incline) as part of the old program, 3 sets of 10 reps (or as many as I could get up, but that was the goal). proper squats and deads, no.


 Quote:
By week 3-4 you'll start to feel like you're working abit, but still waiting. even near your old PR you won't be working much
week 4-5 you'll realize your old PR wasn't that hard afterall.
Week 5-7 you'll be damn, I'm a stud! I might need new clothes, my shoulders, chest and quads rock and my waist looks nice(not small, but leanish)
Week 8-whatever you'll be like, fuck these are hard
week whatever you'll have a reset maybe a few.


I hope you are right on this part because I am a bit skeptical. Right now it seems easy, but then it seems to ramp up pretty quick and as I look forward now to the next 8 weeks, I'm having a hard time believing I will be doing squats/deads with 245lbs that soon, seems like a very fast progression and that my muscles would have to develop incredibly fast. Would be great if it does, I'm just having a hard time believing it now because on my old program, I seemed to go up in weight MUCH slower, but then again the program wasn't anything like this one.
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#6071816 - 01/18/12 10:14 PM Re: Four weeks progress... [Re: HX_Guy]
dirtyS13drifta
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Ok, sorry. I just meant in general. I was doing DB bench myself. Press I wasn't doing, because I hate it.

I'm giving you my feeling on it.

When I started I hadn't done deads since i was in hs. I gave it a go at 60kg(132lbs) just to see. I did 15 reps. I could have done a little more. Regardless.

I deadlifted 107.5kg(237) after my break and it was easier than the 60kg used to be.
Before I took a break I hit 122.5(270). It was hard, but I don't think it was my 5rm max yet.

Squats weren't far off.
60x10 vs 102.5x5

Bench from 72kg to 80kg x 5. But I started under 60kg for S.S. to get there. It worked. Those slow plodding steps add up quickly. I mean 10% on what was already a decent bench for me? I'll take it. I'm pretty sure with this reset I;ll go even further.

The body can recover a lot in 48 hours, but you can't overtax it. Just test it's limits, then do it again. Don't go blasting it.

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