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#6038622 - 01/05/12 08:56 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: denmah]
denmah Offline
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blow off valves are not needed, just adding to the cost of your budget setup.

specially with an automatic, forget about it.
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#6038640 - 01/05/12 09:04 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: denmah]
854t5r Offline
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yeah...
7psi, and auto.. just another cost you don't really need.
(bov)
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#6038649 - 01/05/12 09:07 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: 854t5r]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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I was thinking about that last night as well. Many people run no BOV on autos without any issue. It's common practice in the turbo Brick world.
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#6038708 - 01/05/12 09:33 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
No Runners Offline
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Holset-HY35-Turb...42&cmd=ViewItem

Thoughts on this turbo? Are these just oil cooled or water and oil? Do you think I'll need an oil restrictor with this turbo?

Also adding check valves to the parts list.

Edited by SC Trojan (01/05/12 09:35 AM)
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#6038711 - 01/05/12 09:34 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: 854t5r]
No Runners Offline
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Okay, I'll remove the BOV from the list.
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#6038724 - 01/05/12 09:39 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: No Runners]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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I don't know a ton about Holsets but I do know they have some pretty specific oiling requirements in terms of oil feed pressure. Beyond that, you want to give them a very large drain relative to other center housings. It is common practice in the DSM world to run a -12 drain for the HX35/HX40 Holsets. Just about every other turbo uses either a -8 or -10 drain. Nothing major but something to be aware of. You'll want to have some way to monitor oil pressure into the turbo so you can make sure you're not exceeding recommendations.
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#6038784 - 01/05/12 10:05 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
No Runners Offline
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How does this look for a scavenge pump:

http://www.enginegearonline.com/products/1-GPM-Gear-Pump-12%7B47%7D24-Volt.html

I would set this up to pull oil after the turbo.

Here's a much cheaper unit but it's diaphragm vs. mechanical and I don't know if it's designed to pump hot fluid despite people using them as oil scavenge pumps.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ProductDisplay?R=527&storeId=6970&productId=527&in_merch=1

Edited by SC Trojan (01/05/12 10:08 AM)
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#6039121 - 01/05/12 11:48 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
No Runners Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ElectronVTEC2
I don't know a ton about Holsets but I do know they have some pretty specific oiling requirements in terms of oil feed pressure. Beyond that, you want to give them a very large drain relative to other center housings. It is common practice in the DSM world to run a -12 drain for the HX35/HX40 Holsets. Just about every other turbo uses either a -8 or -10 drain. Nothing major but something to be aware of. You'll want to have some way to monitor oil pressure into the turbo so you can make sure you're not exceeding recommendations.


Can't I use the oil restrictor to control oil flow to the turbo? What size should the supply line be?
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#6039429 - 01/05/12 12:52 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: No Runners]
NVMYMPGZ Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SC Trojan
Can't I use the oil restrictor to control oil flow to the turbo? What size should the supply line be?
http://bit.ly/yzkwhy
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#6039486 - 01/05/12 01:09 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: NVMYMPGZ]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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Yea, I've seen guys weld the feed line output shut, then use drill bits to gradually drill out the weld until the oil pressure is where they want it at the input to the turbo. You can measure anywhere along the feed line to get your reading, just to be clear.
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#6039577 - 01/05/12 01:41 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
LNXGUY Offline
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Find the requirements of the turbo and find a similar factory setup. Hell, maybe the feed from a TDI will work for ya, who knows.
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#6039601 - 01/05/12 01:52 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: LNXGUY]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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DSM feed lines are all factory-restricted as well. Good call, Bill.
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#6039653 - 01/05/12 02:14 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
denmah Offline
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only buy this oil scavenge pump

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TurboWerx-Base-M...40#ht_545wt_902

all the others fail and suck.

put a check valve on your oil feed, 15psi works great.

use parker hydraulics push lok fittings for the oil return.
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"denmah: because canada can't be the only country with a moof" - jsmonet
"LOL, you really are my hero denmah. You actually do the things the rest of us dream or bullshit about." - 98_1LE

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#6039655 - 01/05/12 02:14 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
No Runners Offline
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I'm pretty close to picking up the turbo I posted (Hy 35). Any last input??
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#6039658 - 01/05/12 02:15 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: LNXGUY]
denmah Offline
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 Originally Posted By: LNXGUY
Find the requirements of the turbo and find a similar factory setup. Hell, maybe the feed from a TDI will work for ya, who knows.


with whatever turbo you get, if it isnt restricted, its easy to get a ebay t2/3/4/6 feed bracket with a -4an fitting on it that is undrilled or you can drill your own hole to restrict it, .040 is a safe easy bet.

journals usually like .060 max and ball bearings more towards .030

so drilling a .040 for anything will work great.
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"I'm gonna denmah my gf tonight." LNXGUY
"Denmah has the most consistently entertaining posts of any member here" - Adam G
"denmah: because canada can't be the only country with a moof" - jsmonet
"LOL, you really are my hero denmah. You actually do the things the rest of us dream or bullshit about." - 98_1LE

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#6039666 - 01/05/12 02:17 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: denmah]
denmah Offline
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eh im not a fan of holset but i know people have run them without issue, i would like to know how big that turbo is...

might be larger than you want.
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"I'm gonna denmah my gf tonight." LNXGUY
"Denmah has the most consistently entertaining posts of any member here" - Adam G
"denmah: because canada can't be the only country with a moof" - jsmonet
"LOL, you really are my hero denmah. You actually do the things the rest of us dream or bullshit about." - 98_1LE

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#6039705 - 01/05/12 02:28 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: denmah]
No Runners Offline
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Matt, if I was willing to drive out there at some point would you be willing to help out at all? I think I'll need help with is running charge piping.

Edited by SC Trojan (01/05/12 02:29 PM)
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#6039718 - 01/05/12 02:33 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: No Runners]
denmah Offline
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yeah i can ask my friend with the lift and shit and we can get something organized probably
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"I'm gonna denmah my gf tonight." LNXGUY
"Denmah has the most consistently entertaining posts of any member here" - Adam G
"denmah: because canada can't be the only country with a moof" - jsmonet
"LOL, you really are my hero denmah. You actually do the things the rest of us dream or bullshit about." - 98_1LE

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#6040335 - 01/05/12 06:12 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: denmah]
No Runners Offline
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From what I've read there are a few Honda guys that have run that turbo and they said they hit peak boost around 5000 rpm. I would hope that with 2-2.5 times the displacement I'd be able to get into peak boost quite a bit earlier.

Edited by SC Trojan (01/05/12 06:13 PM)
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#6040401 - 01/05/12 06:34 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: denmah]
No Runners Offline
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 Originally Posted By: denmah
eh im not a fan of holset but i know people have run them without issue, i would like to know how big that turbo is...

might be larger than you want.


Here is the HY35 compared to a T25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ezT-zO-Wrc

Got this off of Supra Forums:

HY35

The hy flows about 57lbs a minute and measures the following

Compressor minor/major: 52.75mm/77.84mm
Turbine minor/major: 57.98mm/65.20mm

Edited by SC Trojan (01/05/12 06:41 PM)
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#6040463 - 01/05/12 07:08 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: denmah]
854t5r Offline
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 Originally Posted By: denmah
 Originally Posted By: LNXGUY
Find the requirements of the turbo and find a similar factory setup. Hell, maybe the feed from a TDI will work for ya, who knows.


with whatever turbo you get, if it isnt restricted, its easy to get a ebay t2/3/4/6 feed bracket with a -4an fitting on it that is undrilled or you can drill your own hole to restrict it, .040 is a safe easy bet.

journals usually like .060 max and ball bearings more towards .030

so drilling a .040 for anything will work great.


this was my thought. just get a banjo bolt with a small hole, and drill it out yourself. I just had to do the same thing when I made a S/S line for the Volvo.
I bought an ebay banjo bolt setup, and used a drillbit to match the size of the original banjo bolt hole.
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#6040687 - 01/05/12 09:38 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: 854t5r]
denmah Offline
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ok 57mm isnt that big, it just looks huge from that photo with the big compressor and anti surge housing
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"I'm gonna denmah my gf tonight." LNXGUY
"Denmah has the most consistently entertaining posts of any member here" - Adam G
"denmah: because canada can't be the only country with a moof" - jsmonet
"LOL, you really are my hero denmah. You actually do the things the rest of us dream or bullshit about." - 98_1LE

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#6041189 - 01/06/12 08:50 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: denmah]
No Runners Offline
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Update on purchases; I will add to the first page as well:

Holset HY35- 300 shipped
AEM UEGO Kit- 177 shipped

Edit: Lots more added in bold on the first page

Edited by SC Trojan (01/06/12 11:03 AM)
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#6041550 - 01/06/12 11:02 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: No Runners]
No Runners Offline
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Edit: All the big stuff ordered.


Question: I've been reading on DSM tuners (and someone mentioned it earlier) that Holsets require a pretty large oil drain line (around -14AN). I ordered -10 thinking it was going to be plenty. However, I was thinking about it, and the DSM's aren't remote systems and use gravity for oil return. I am going remote and have a pump pulling oil out of the turbo. I am thinking that I should be totally fine with this set up. Thoughts?
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#6042538 - 01/06/12 03:28 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: No Runners]
LNXGUY Offline
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It's too bad these weren't easier to find. \:\(
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'03 S10 ZR2
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#6042960 - 01/06/12 05:26 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: LNXGUY]
No Runners Offline
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What happened to some of the old turbo gurus that used to be here like Danl and that Saab guy?

Edited by SC Trojan (01/08/12 02:44 PM)
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#6046153 - 01/08/12 02:44 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: No Runners]
No Runners Offline
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Regarding oil pressure and restriction:

I found this from DSMtuners regarding Holset turbos:

Oil pressure of 150 kPa (20 lbf/in2) must show at the oil inlet within 3 - 4 seconds of engine firing to prevent damage to turbocharger bearing system. A flexible supply pipe is recommended.
13. The minimum oil pressure when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa (30 lbf/in2). Maximum permissible operating pressure is 500 kPa (72 lbf/in2) although 600 kPa (88 lbf/in2) is permitted during cold start up. Under idling conditions pressure should not fall below 70 kPa (10 lbf/in2).


Stock oil pressure for my vehicle is 4.5 psi or more at idle and 36-75 psi at 3000rpm.

Looks like I won't need a restrictor after all. In fact my pressure will be low at idle.

Edited by SC Trojan (01/08/12 04:12 PM)
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#6046571 - 01/08/12 05:57 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: denmah]
danl Offline
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I would probably do an internally gated T3 garret. Internal gates are more reliable in my experience. Also with the garret turbo you can swap hot sides around to get the spool and top end you want fairly easily/cheaply. With the holset you are locked in on the hot side. I would do a T3 super 60 start out with .63 AR and bump it up as you want. Just make sure to buy the turbo with the most popular hot side flange, wether it be 4 or 5 bolt output flange I don't know.

If you want to do it cheap get an OEM garret turbo off of something. Those holsets seem to blow up a lot on gas motors. They are real funny about oiling and real bad at handling heat since diesel EGT's are lower than gas EGT's. You are remote mounted so that might not be an issue.

I would suggest a mitsubishi turbo because they are probably the most reliable turbos in the world but unless you can find a 16g off a fuso delivery truck forget about it. Mitsubishi flanges are a bit more expensive to source than garret flanges for mocking your system up. If you stay with a garret then you are staying with the most popular bolt patterns and you make your life easier.

I hope the stock fueling compensates for boost, because if not your project will be short lived.
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#6050138 - 01/09/12 10:42 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: denmah]
No Runners Offline
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Denmah, what did you do about the PCV on the turbo truck?
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#6050245 - 01/09/12 11:11 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: No Runners]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SC Trojan
Denmah, what did you do about the PCV on the turbo truck?


What's the issue, is it not setup to handle positive pressure or something?
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#6050251 - 01/09/12 11:14 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
No Runners Offline
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correct it isn't set up for positive pressure. apparently the TRD Supercharger kit doesn't address the pcv at all and they remain reliable, but I don't want to fuck my seals.

Edited by SC Trojan (01/09/12 11:16 PM)
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#6050651 - 01/10/12 08:27 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: No Runners]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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Can you just replace that line/valve with a catch can setup, and supply a vacuum (pre-turbo) source to said catch can to create sufficient vacuum to evacuate the crankcase? I've seen some setups on DSMs that replace the PCV with a check-valve system to prevent boost from getting into the crankcase through that system.
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#6050734 - 01/10/12 09:27 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
NVMYMPGZ Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ElectronVTEC2
Can you just replace that line/valve with a catch can setup, and supply a vacuum (pre-turbo) source to said catch can to create sufficient vacuum to evacuate the crankcase?

This is exactly what i did on the e30 to cure some oil burnoff. works great, for a cheap DIY fix.
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#6051080 - 01/10/12 11:54 AM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
No Runners Offline
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I've read a lot about both ways of doing it (check valve and catch can setup). Not sure which to do yet. I was hoping someone would say, oh don't worry about it you'll be fine leaving everything stock .
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#6051318 - 01/10/12 12:58 PM Re: Gauging interest: SVA want to help turbo the 4Runner? [Re: No Runners]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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Frankly, at that boost level you may be able to just leave it stock. On my first 1G after getting back into modding cars I had $5 in rubber hose, a brass nipple in the intake and a gatorade bottle to collect the shit, if that makes you feel any better \:\)
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