Didnt know B18c5s could do 200+ whp with bolt ons.Impressive.

That rsx always seems like it's faster than it should be.. what's it trap?

125 on the forums. 102 in real life.

but really...the maths say an eg with that set up should pull the rsx...imo

that is not very realistic, probably a high reading dyno. They dyno like 162-165 bone stock. To make 200whp you'd think it would take more than tuning and breathing mods.
As awesome as the dc2 itr was, it used to get spanked against rsx's with hondata and race headers. I'd seen it countless times. The outcome in the vid is not far fetched at all.

dude stole the hit bad in the first race

Here's a direct quote from the tuner about the dyno used.

"In fact most chassis dynos measure flywheel hp and calculate wheel...how come you can do a pull in 3rd gear or 4th gear and basically they measure the same

This is "comparison mode" which is Dyno Dynamics method of equating to Dynojet numbers...it says flywheel on the graphs (just like dynapack) but every car I have had report to me about going on a local Dynojet the numbers have been within 1-2% as far as I have been told"

and here is the thread. http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2974988

How come you didnt quote this: "It's an excellent tune and I'm sure the car works great but do people really think for a second that it's putting down an actual 208.6 whp to the ground?"
Anyway, he's going to Etown on Wednesday so we can keep an eye on what he's going to run, should be a nice night. I'm guessing around 14.1-14.2@97-98mph on street tires. To me this is more like a 185whp hatch.

Genius, you quoted the first part of his post, but not the last.
Anyway, blah blah blah...this is not a 200whp hatch. k thanx bye.

theres no way that hatch is putting down 208 whp imho... with that kind of weight advantage it wouldve been gone.

Lol at anyone here knowing what the hatch or rsx weighed that night

To add to the "debate"...

Unless something is seriously wrong with either motor, the k20 would also have a much fatter power band due not only to more displacement, but also b/c of i-vtAk. Peak power ain't everything.

To add to the "debate"...

Unless something is seriously wrong with either motor, the k20 would also have a much fatter power band due not only to more displacement, but also b/c of i-vtAk. Peak power ain't everything.

200whp is a cakewalk ...but that hatch isnt putting that down unless that rsx is a custom convertible.

*your experience isnt exactly a prime example of what you can do *
is m

[quote=cliff st-clair]Genius, you quoted the first part of his post, but not the last.
Anyway, blah blah blah...this is not a 200whp hatch. k thanx bye.

Yeah haven't been to yonkers since the civic days. But the 350 does not race, well...not for the time being anyway.

JDM 98 Spec ITR
65mm T/B
Hy-tec replica header 2.5" collector(heat wrapped)
2.5" Exhaust piping straight to Apex'i WS muffler
short ram intake/ K&N filter
440cc injectors
Walbro 255 Fuel Pump
Tuned on Hondata S300 93 octane
202.26HP/136.77TQ

o_O

Wait a minute...Why would you want shift when the result is going to be not only less HP, but less torque multiplication (higher gear) as well??

If revving higher nets you more power, you do it, lol. THAT's the "fatter part of the power band". It doesn't matter if you're "barely making more power" -- hell, you want to hold the gear with the better torque multiplier until some point PAST peak power, but NEVER before, lol. You only shift when the power dies off by more than the torque multiplier is gaining you, which is going to be different for different cars depending on how rapidly power dies off.

one thing that ive seen about low displacement 200whp motors is that for the most part when they break 200 SAE wheel hp they generally do it briefly at very high rpm, 7k+ and if you don't have the tranny or shifting correct you can fall out of your powerband very easily.

It's been ten years, frankly I don't have a photographic memory, I'm just recalling what I can and my memory tells me that shifting at 9400, while it was making slightly more whp, did not net me any better ET or MPH at the strip. I think the highest MPH I hit was 99.xx with that setup. It wasn't a drag car by any means, but that's the only comparative basis I have since dyno's can be manipulated way too easily.

Genius, you quoted the first part of his post, but not the last.
Anyway, blah blah blah...this is not a 200whp hatch. k thanx bye.

http://youtu.be/0dyApIVhXVk
Full street trim, 2460lbs with my 250 in the drivers seat
80% humidity. 20mph headwind

ah, that's cute, people still street race.

thats slow for that set up.

still... no way the rsx is trapping 102 mph if that hatch truly traps 97...


this is more representative of a decent running set up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGUvEBBBzkQ



well sorted itr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsFpC8DTWHw

my buddy trapped 98 mph all day long in his 01 itr back in the day.

poorly launched 14.5 @ 97
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeYg4gAl3Hg

skunk2 cams/mods for this itr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIKkhT1wQd0

103 mph.

no way that eg is running well @ 97 mph traps.

I'm guessing around 14.1-14.2@97-98mph on street tires. To me this is more like a 185whp hatch.

Don't people know not to compare trap speeds and ETs from different tracks???? That is drag racing 101. You just cant.
The hatch is running exactly what it's supposed to run at Englishtown in early fall weather, which is why I was able to guess the time it would run.
A friend's stock ITR ran 94mph there back in the day in similar weather. Bottom line is: this hatch does not make significantly more power than a stock dc2 itr, it is just lighter by 300lbs+. This timeslip proves that the 208whp number is utter bullshit and that this is basically a stock b18c5 hatch. lol

lol, after spending $40+ for 2 passes at the closest track, im surprise more people don't streetrace

You realize this was his first time at the track with the Hatch and he only was able to get 2 runs, correct? Hardly any time to test and tune. I'll tell you what tho, I'll bet this car goes 100mph traps before the season is over without adding anymore power, just going to a better track.

Lol. Planing any trips to the track cliff? Id love to line up next to the z

It might see 100mph when it's less than 38 degrees out and it's dry. other than that nah....

Same here, but he's "retired"

I really dont' know why anyone would want to race my car so much.

First of all it is stock and right now slower than stock due to the rims I have. I've got nothing to prove, it's going to run low 14s and trap around 97-100. I used to trap 120mph+ in my turbo Civic so to me racing a low 14 sec car seems meh.
Secondly I can only get to the track on a weekend. I actually have a regular 9-5 job so it's tough to get to NJ during the weekdays. But heh if you guys hit the strip on a weekend I may change my mind just to hang out and talk shit. hehe...

I also find it funny that this kick to ze liver character is always posting races about other cars but never or rarely posts about his car. Very strange.

do you even know the history of cliffs cars?

stfu

do you even know the history of cliffs cars?

stfu

My daily is fastAr and get better gas mileage then yours.

That Civic with the B18C5? Gas mileage? You're probably doing better than me. Faster? You're not even close.

How do you shut somebody up when they've already admitted their car is slower than yours?

You challenge them to a race to prove they are right???

Yea
Sorry, did i miss your post with results post suppAr lightweight wheel moddz?

Turbo swap and bolt ons.

Personal results? None. Getting to the track would require a big effort that I just haven't had the time/interest to make. In my last car (MR2 Turbo), I ran 13.1's @ 107 mph on street tires, and this car would eat its lunch, without a doubt.

For reference only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBXkGwXm7DI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwFFJS30Oy8

While this is obviously a well-driven shop car, personal users have put up similar times. Some have actually put up better times in street trim/fuel.

First video is full interior, street tires, 93 octane. 60' was 2.19 with that setup, resulted in a 12.79 @ 112.65 mph. I don't know what video you're watching. Remaining videos show what the car does with some very basic weight reduction, fuel, and tires.

You're the cool guy who tried "calling me out" over the internet with your 14.2 second car. Sorry that didn't work out for you. You really need a faster car if you're going to attempt to talk shit to turbo cars randomly. Any modern turbo car with a $500 tune is going to walk that Civic.

Wow, when did the circus get to town, I didn't see any trucks? Seriously, it doesn't take "personal results" to know that a GTi modded to that extent will have no problem running in the 110+ range which is a far cry from 14.2@97, even if it was a "slow night" you're not going to find more than 1-2 MPH on a "fast night."

Let's face it, time has passed the N/A honda world by in a big way. Most performance compacts can do 14.2@97 or much better with a factory warranty nowadays. Turbo and DI or diesel is the way things are going. It's cute that people still swap hatches and such though, great for the nostalgia factor I guess. Sucks I won't get my MS3 out to the track at all, waiting on a fuel pump and don't want to risk anything, but I'm fairly certain it's got at least 102 MPH in it. Regardless, if I want to go fast, I get in the DSM.

Todd

Any modern turbo car with a $500 tune is going to walk that Civic.

Seriously, it doesn't take "personal results" to know that a GTi modded to that extent will have no problem running in the 110+ range which is a far cry from 14.2@97, even if it was a "slow night" you're not going to find more than 1-2 MPH on a "fast night."

Let's face it, time has passed the N/A honda world by in a big way. Most performance compacts can do 14.2@97 or much better with a factory warranty nowadays. Turbo and DI or diesel is the way things are going. It's cute that people still swap hatches and such though, great for the nostalgia factor I guess.

Lastly, and let's get something straight here - both Cliff and I have been around this forum for about 10 years and have seen jackoffs like you come and go.

lol ya, that's what all the kids around here think too until they get walked by a NA Honda, hilarious.

That Civic is walking tuned turbo cars? Where?

That Civic is walking tuned turbo cars? Where?

Any modern turbo car with a $500 tune is going to walk that Civic.

You must be another old folk having trouble comprehending interweb talk.
Im sure Liver was referring to his rsx.
If its the hatch you had in mind, it beat up on a bolton Genesis the other night if that counts?

And I said "that Civic".


That GTI is old and busted. Congratulations.

Oh the ironing. Casecase said tuned turbo cars would walk that CIVIC. Get it, walk YOUR CIVIC. Didn't say "WALK NA HONDAS" did he? No, he specifically mentioned your Honda CIVIC. Then Liver came to your rescue, or something like that, and fucked everything up.

Lastly, Genesiseseses (how do you pluralize that?) can't really make great use of bolt-ons nor can they be tuned at this point. So, that's great that you beat up on a stock car that someone wasted money modding (at this point). Congrats...?

Todd

No, it's not - you're reading far too much into it. A modern, tuned turbo car will easily - EASILY handle a 14.2@97 MPH Civic. That isn't anything special, I'm sorry. At no point did he or I say that said tuned turbo car could walk *any* NA Honda, just the one in the video. It's not really up for debate, 14.2@97 is a cripple fight, yet you'd think we were saying it would get beat by a PT Cruiser or something.

Todd

Not here to rescue anyone, that comment was ignorant as fawk...simple as that.

i think his point is that it's ricer racing to compare a modded car to a stock one.

any number of swapped bubbles can walk a stock evo from a roll on race. but when it comes to anything from a dig, around a corner, or in less than ideal weather there's not a single person that wouldn't prefer a well sorted factor car to a project.

I have a project vvl that will easily outrun my evo but it sits on a trickle charger while the evo goes out 99% of the time.

I have pride in my project but it has it's limitations

The only swapped normally aspirated bubbles that are respectably fast imo are the k20s when tuned and equipped with all the breathing mods. It's not to hard to get those to trap well over 110mph. That is moving...for a n/a car. For sure.

i think his point is that it's ricer racing to compare a modded car to a stock one.

any number of swapped bubbles can walk a stock evo from a roll on race. but when it comes to anything from a dig, around a corner, or in less than ideal weather there's not a single person that wouldn't prefer a well sorted factor car to a project.

I have a project vvl that will easily outrun my evo but it sits on a trickle charger while the evo goes out 99% of the time.

I have pride in my project but it has it's limitations

And to the "kick me to the liver" guy, have you measured up against a 350z hr or a 370z? You'd be hard pressed to beat those in my opinion and they are nothing special in a straight line by todays' standards.

I think we're all asking you that same question. Everybody in this forum has already been there, done that. We know what a k20 runs with bolt-ons. We know what swapped b18c5 hatches run. We know what other cars run similar E.T.'s & traps, so we know what's going to be a good run and what isn't.

I don't think a single one of these videos has surprised anybody.


The "my frankenstein 15 year-old car is just-as/almost-as-fast" for less money argument is pretty lame.

And once again, I didn't start the Turbo vs. NA argument, but I am gonna reply and post my thoughts when people compare a car that cost about 8K to buy and build against brand new cars that cost 30K+.

An Odyssey with a tune makes me giggle a little

MeH "fast" or not swapped Hatches are fun as hell to drive.

More real world results are in.
b18c5 hatch > 2.0t gti dsg aprstage1

Vids in the morning

Hard to believe, but not impossible. Without seeing the vid, I'd have to guess the GTI driver is letting the computer do the shifting, which isn't the fastest. You have to put it M mode and short shift it to get the most once it's tuned.

Either way, my car is still faster.

I can argue that the cars in my sig are better DD's since you don't have to beat the piss out of the thing to get it to actually get out of it's way.

ok its officially 1999 and you are on drugs.

d the blender may make peak torque at 7k rpm but its holding all the torque it does have across the entire rev band.

you can't argue that it's not "easier" in a car with torque in the lower rpms.

We just took a thread titled "04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5" 5 pages. what. the. fuck.