#5128404 - 10/26/10 11:46 AM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: PurduinaSi]
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NOT spotch...
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57156
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It's a shitty car because it was underheating due to a stuck thermostat?
Yup. Thermostats aren't hard to get right (just like subframes and fuel pumps aren't, I'm looking at you BMW... mounting suspensions to cars so they don't just tear off isn't supposed to be epically impossible). I've owned cars from new to 250k and 15+ years old, all for at least a year, and have yet to have a thermostat stick open. Let alone on a well-maintained car with relatively low miles after just buying it. Don't act like this is some kind of freak occurrence and that otherwise Audis are bulletproof. A breakdown in the first few weeks of ownership from a car widely recognized to have reliability flaws, and a horrible dealer experience following such a simple repair, are enough to sour the average person.
an older german car requires some elbow grease from time to time, does not make it a "shitily built unreliable POS".
A 6 year old car just coming off a CPO warranty and great maintenance, with low miles, shouldn't require a bunch of elbow grease. At first your 'older german car' statement made me do a doubletake, but then I remembered that they're considered "older" the minute the warranty expires, as opposed to when they get high mileage or hit the ~10 year mark.
If you don't care about having fun in your car, buy a civic or a mazda 3 and just go from point A to point B.
Exactly, it's either piece of shit or japanese econobox. There are absolutely no other options.
And anyone who is part of our exclusive fraternity for german cars knows not to take an out of warranty Audi to the dealer  
Yeah, ruling out the possibility adds to the mystique and the l337ness of it. *tugs at suspenders* "Best cars ever, as long as you're ready to get yer hands dirty! You can't take it to none o' them dealers... you gotta be man enough to fix it yourself, in the gravel, when it's 20 below outside, uphill both ways".
M3s and S4s are awesome cars, but it's stupid to fault someone for not wanting to spend a bunch of money on a headache.
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#5128486 - 10/26/10 12:21 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: NOT spotch...]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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In total, this experience cost me around $1500. I sold the car for a little more than I bought it for, but had to pay for plates, some basic maintenance (fluids, plugs), and then the dealer debacle. If you haven't read about my dealer experience, suffice it to say that I knew I was taking a risk with them looking at it, but in other *very* similar cases, owners were either getting the TSB describing my issue comped by Audi, or at worst they were out $400-ish to fix the hose described by the TSB. What I did not see happening was a dealer that took the customer for close to $1000 for what really amounted to a basic repair.
Unfortunately, I knew I made a mistake a week after I bought it and it started acting up. I had that old "it won't happen to me" attitude but it did, and who knows, maybe that would have been the only problem I ever had with it and I could have driven it happily for the next few years. Buuuuut I wasn't going to take that chance. I'm in a perfectly fine financial state to pay for gas (yes, even at $60/wk), insurance, car payment, blah blah blah, but when you start throwing the prospect of these kinds of repairs in there, my willingness to pay the premium on all other parts of the car goes down substantially. So, I did the math and found that getting into a gas-saver Civic saves me, oh around $450 per month. That buys a *lot* of car, but more importantly right now it pays off debt much more quickly.
I was impatient, saw a "cheap" price on the S4, and just didn't consider all of the other factors that go into the ownership of a car like this. I will absolutely not talk shit, or say the S4 is a bad car whatsoever, and I don't think that I have. It's just not a good fit for me right now, and unfortunately the shit with the dealer has really soured me on Audis in general.
Another way to look at this is to say "You should have just bought this thing CPO" which has a lot of merit, but when I priced out CPO S4's like the one I bought, they were $8000 higher than what I paid for mine to begin with. If I ever get back into a german sports car, you can be damn sure it will be under a manufacturer's CPO warranty, without a doubt. Live and learn, right? These kinds of purchases are all about what kind of risk tolerance you have, and unfortunately mine was lower than the risk I ended up taking on, plain and simple. It cost me money to learn that lesson - but it could have cost me much more had I not decided to just cut my losses and get out of it.
Todd
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods 
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#5128566 - 10/26/10 01:00 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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NOT spotch...
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57156
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These kinds of purchases are all about what kind of risk tolerance you have, and unfortunately mine was lower than the risk I ended up taking on, plain and simple.
I think that's a good way to put it.
_________________________
"On the street where there is no lap timer, feel is all that matters" - scootergeek
"A bunch of nerdy douchebags chasing a ghost." -Ob1 on bitcoin
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#5129318 - 10/26/10 05:38 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: NOT spotch...]
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cliff st-clair
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
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What puzzles me in this dilemma is that the extra warranty he bought did not cover the repair. When I bought my Z it was used and out of manufacturer warranty after a year of ownership, my windows regulators broke and my extended aftermarket warranty covered the $800 bill, even though I had to go out of pocket first. So for them not to cover a cooling issue for Todd's car just tells me someone's been had really bad.
I would not have gone near an S4 or M3 if I knew I wasn't covered for repairs years after I bought it, because they're just not an easy car to work on and it's not going to be cheap to have people work on them.
Hey, but you live an learn, mistakes happen. If the car ownership experience turned him off that bad, selling it was the 100% right thing to do.
_________________________
03' 350z
04' Mazda 3 s
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#5129370 - 10/26/10 05:55 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: cliff st-clair]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Cliff - chalk this one up to "Learn to read the fine print, dumbass" kind of a move with the warranty. Now, with that said, I only bought it to cover the infamous "8 mile chain" issues they can have, so I wasn't at all shocked when a little cooling hose wasn't covered. Remember, from a typical manufacturer, i'd bet that hose would cost, at most, $50. From Audi? $250, and it takes three hours to install. And it needed an adapter. And it wasn't the entire issue. And... yea, like you said, lesson learned 
Todd
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#5129393 - 10/26/10 06:06 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: cliff st-clair]
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HungWeiLo007
Post Master Sr
Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 6175
Loc: Lost Island
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I see a lot of those commercials now where they cover the repairs of your car. Is this worth it? If you had this, would you still be driving the S4?
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#5130321 - 10/27/10 08:23 AM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: NOT spotch...]
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PurduinaSi
Post Master Sr
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 7857
Loc: Westchester, NY
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It's a shitty car because it was underheating due to a stuck thermostat?
Yup. Thermostats aren't hard to get right (just like subframes and fuel pumps aren't, I'm looking at you BMW... mounting suspensions to cars so they don't just tear off isn't supposed to be epically impossible). I've owned cars from new to 250k and 15+ years old, all for at least a year, and have yet to have a thermostat stick open. Let alone on a well-maintained car with relatively low miles after just buying it. Don't act like this is some kind of freak occurrence and that otherwise Audis are bulletproof. A breakdown in the first few weeks of ownership from a car widely recognized to have reliability flaws, and a horrible dealer experience following such a simple repair, are enough to sour the average person.
EVERY car maker has its faults and problems. Fact is, there are THOUSANDS of parts on every car, most of which are designed/manufactured by third party companies, and it's impossible for a car to be perfect and never have any parts fail. If a simple thermostat stuck open is the biggest issue in this case, then it's really not that big of a deal. It could have happened to any car.. I've had failed thermostats in my Civic, Integra, and my M3. If the car is "widely recognized to have reliability flaws", then it really should have came as no surprise when it "broke down in the first few weeks of ownership"; It should have been expected.
an older german car requires some elbow grease from time to time, does not make it a "shitily built unreliable POS". A 6 year old car just coming off a CPO warranty and great maintenance, with low miles, shouldn't require a bunch of elbow grease. At first your 'older german car' statement made me do a doubletake, but then I remembered that they're considered "older" the minute the warranty expires, as opposed to when they get high mileage or hit the ~10 year mark.
Really? Obviously the term "older" is all relative. I run a Pre-Owned department, and anything older than 07-08 is older to me now. Cars with 25-30k miles off lease or traded in 2-3 years old will sell easily, and can be sold with few repairs as almost a new car. An 02-05 is hardly newer, and usually require much more reconditioning and take a bit longer to sell. I'm not just speaking of German cars, but rather all makes. Again, it's all relative. And I didn't say "a bunch of elbow grease" so don't put words in my mouth. I said from time to time; and yes, ANY car out of warranty should be expected to need to have repairs FROM TIME TO TIME.
If you don't care about having fun in your car, buy a civic or a mazda 3 and just go from point A to point B. Exactly, it's either piece of shit or japanese econobox. There are absolutely no other options.
Who said there are no other options? I'm saying that if you don't have the financial resources to cover gas/repairs/etc then a "fun" car is not for you. Anybody on this forum can tell you that you'll end up spending more money on mods/repairs/whatever on a sports car than you will on ANY Japanese econobox commuter. (unless you're Euphoric  )
And anyone who is part of our exclusive fraternity for german cars knows not to take an out of warranty Audi to the dealer Yeah, ruling out the possibility adds to the mystique and the l337ness of it. *tugs at suspenders* "Best cars ever, as long as you're ready to get yer hands dirty! You can't take it to none o' them dealers... you gotta be man enough to fix it yourself, in the gravel, when it's 20 below outside, uphill both ways".
Again, I do this shit for a living. Seeing as though I work for a Mercedes-Benz dealership, I see all the upsales that go on in our service department. The service writers work off commission, they are salesman, and they get PAID to find things wrong with your car. Not just Audi, not just MB, but EVERY car dealership. This is common knowledge Spotch. Dealers are great for warranty work, but its practically common knowledge that you'll spend less money and probably get the same service if not better at a local indy shop rather than the dealership. I never said DIY in the cold on the floor blah blah blah, but if you think the dealer is the end all be all for repairs on cars, then I pity you...
Fact is, I own two "older" German cars, both of which have been dead reliable and never left me stranded. With the exception of a few smaller non important items, not much has gone wrong with either car, and they're so much more rewarding to drive than any econobox. Driving German cars is a luxury IMO, and should be expected to have a higher cost of ownership. Some people can justify this, others can't. Agree to disagree.
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#5130642 - 10/27/10 10:12 AM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: PurduinaSi]
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NOT spotch...
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57156
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If the car is "widely recognized to have reliability flaws", then it really should have came as no surprise when it "broke down in the first few weeks of ownership"; It should have been expected.
Yeah, even EV has said that he thought he could roll the dice and win, and didn't. I get the feeling he realizes that he should've expected it to be at least a little unreliable instead of expecting reliability just b/c it was in good shape and well maintained.
Again, I do this shit for a living. Seeing as though I work for a Mercedes-Benz dealership, I see all the upsales that go on in our service department. The service writers work off commission, they are salesman, and they get PAID to find things wrong with your car. Not just Audi, not just MB, but EVERY car dealership. This is common knowledge Spotch. Dealers are great for warranty work, but its practically common knowledge that you'll spend less money and probably get the same service if not better at a local indy shop rather than the dealership. I never said DIY in the cold on the floor blah blah blah, but if you think the dealer is the end all be all for repairs on cars, then I pity you...
I don't think the dealer is the be-all end-all, but whenever there's a german car discussion it usually goes
"they break down a lot"
"not after you replace the cooling system and weld the rear suspension to the car and ..."
"I guess... but even taking it to the dealer is a hellish experience"
"well duh, you have to do all this yourself! only sissies go to dealers anyway! Once you buy a german car you're on your own, but that's how it should be anyway!"
I get it, but I also feel like going to a dealer should at least be an option for a DD. Especially when the car is potentially likely to need frequent repairs anyway.
Driving German cars is a luxury IMO, and should be expected to have a higher cost of ownership. Some people can justify this, others can't. Agree to disagree.
I agree with this totally. We've all got different tolerances of what we've got time and patience to put up with in our daily drivers.
I think you and I agree with more than we think we do. I was just trying to point out that people are harping on his gas mileage comment and I was trying to point out that it was more than just gas mileage (some of the stuff we've said and he's said since).
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#5131007 - 10/27/10 12:00 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: Impulsive]
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PurduinaSi
Post Master Sr
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 7857
Loc: Westchester, NY
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The issue with a lot of people is they have nice cars and many local mechanics aren't exactly known as trustworthy, smart or competent to work on the latest/greatest car and they often don't have the required parts.
Luxury dealers like to brag about their service being a luxury experience. So most people expect at least a professional atmosphere and their car fixed right. This is why people go to the dealers.
Yes and no. Luxury experience as in we will pick up your car from your house/job/etc, drop off a 2011 courtesy loaner, bring your car to get an oil change, and then return it to you with a complimentary car wash. Or if you come in, you'll be greeted by our friendly valet, sit in our brand new service department with flat screens, coffee, and pastries etc. You won't recieve any of this at a local indy shop. However, that's what you're paying for. Neither shop will do a better job than the other at replacing a thermostat, you'll just be pampered at the dealer. For our wealthy upscale busy customers, they love this service, however some people don't mind dropping their car off at a garage with two seats on the side as the waiting area or having a friend pick them up and drop them off. That being said, I either do all my work myself or have one of the techs in the shop do it after hours, so I'm a bit fortunate in that regard.
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#5131683 - 10/27/10 03:45 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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NOT spotch...
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57156
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Anybody on this forum can tell you that you'll end up spending more money on mods/repairs/whatever on a sports car than you will on ANY Japanese econobox commuter. (unless you're Euphoric ) ive read that about 10 times and I still dont get it where have I said its cheaper to operate a sports car? pretty sure I say the opposite. Are part prices for the e36 that bad? no not really, if thats what you are referring to.  as for more rewarding to drive...eh yes and no. totally depends on what you are talking about and what cars... all that said,im dropping my diff tonight. fun times.
Get it or not, I thought it was funny 
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#5131776 - 10/27/10 04:18 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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PurduinaSi
Post Master Sr
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 7857
Loc: Westchester, NY
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Anybody on this forum can tell you that you'll end up spending more money on mods/repairs/whatever on a sports car than you will on ANY Japanese econobox commuter. (unless you're Euphoric ) ive read that about 10 times and I still dont get it where have I said its cheaper to operate a sports car? pretty sure I say the opposite. Are part prices for the e36 that bad? no not really, if thats what you are referring to. as for more rewarding to drive...eh yes and no. totally depends on what you are talking about and what cars... all that said,im dropping my diff tonight. fun times.
You're reading too far into it... I meant spending money on your previous Japanese econobox commuter..
Why are you dropping your diff?
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#5131954 - 10/27/10 05:39 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: PurduinaSi]
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Euphoricuck
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
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#5132034 - 10/27/10 06:31 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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LNXGUY
Tougher than Logan Roy
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 107826
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
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Jon, the subframe can't be that bad. Pull it, powdercoat it and never worry about it again.
_________________________
-Bill The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children. Left foot, right foot, just keep moving!!! -Jeffrey P. Murphy
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#5132058 - 10/27/10 06:49 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: PurduinaSi]
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LNXGUY
Tougher than Logan Roy
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 107826
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
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You've never seen E36 subframes then
I used to drive a mkII vw..
Can it possibly be worse then that?
_________________________
-Bill The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children. Left foot, right foot, just keep moving!!! -Jeffrey P. Murphy
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#5132078 - 10/27/10 06:57 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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Panda Express
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/27/00
Posts: 44392
Loc: DFW, Texas
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Make sure you have a sport bike and a tow strap handy in case you need to tow it to a nearby shop. Oh, and a sheet of plywood, in case it happens to be parked on grass.
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#TeamLH aka old ladies at IKEA walk up to me and ask "Do you work for Mercedes Benz?" #Hamfosi My FlickR y0!
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#5132397 - 10/27/10 09:47 PM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: Panda Express]
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Euphoricuck
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
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#9173915 - 10/31/17 02:50 AM
Re: The pros and cons of Audi S4 ownership
[Re: NOT spotch...]
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HYst
Jr Member
Registered: 05/21/17
Posts: 432
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Moderator: auxilary, Professor Paki
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