#1259840 - 04/15/07 02:57 PM
Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
|
Moof
Mounts the residents
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 29357
Loc: Canadia
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1259915 - 04/15/07 03:28 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: daemon]
|
scootergeek
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46248
Loc: East of St. Louis
|
I thought only the tubo models were considered dsm's.
Everything built at the Diamond Star Motors plant in Normal, IL (while it was the Diamond Star plant, it's since returned to wholly owned by Mitsu) is a DSM.
cheers,
scott
_________________________
Still pissy after all these years...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1259919 - 04/15/07 03:30 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: daemon]
|
Morbo
Post Master Jr
Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 1715
Loc: TX, US
|
I thought only the tubo models were considered dsm's.
No, DSM refers to Diamond Star Motors, a joint venture between Mitsubishi and Chrysler. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Star_Motors
D'oh. Treed.
Edited by Morbo (04/15/07 03:30 PM)
_________________________
Kittens give me gas.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1259952 - 04/15/07 03:40 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: Morbo]
|
daemon
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 3538
Loc: West Columbia, SC
|
For some reason, I thought that only the engine in the turbocharged cars was made by Diamond Star Motors.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1259955 - 04/15/07 03:40 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: scootergeek]
|
Euphoricuck
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
|
It's good to see some people keeping their SvA traditions going.
cheers,
scott
*cough* fridays *cough*
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1261815 - 04/16/07 01:32 AM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: Euphoricuck]
|
cua0
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 17270
Loc: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
|
i've owned one, i will never again own one.
i had a 1G AWD TSi, and yeah, nickle and dime you to death!
i had no complaints about the reliability of them as far as starting up and running, but mine never ran right. there was nothing i could do to get it to pull like it was supposed to. it idled great, and ran great up until about 1500rpm below redline, where it would stutter and shutter and not want to make any more power. i thought it was the coil packs, so i replaced them, no go, thought it was the CAS so i replaced that, no go. i checked the ecu as they are prone to leaky diodes and shit, it was fine.
the JDM CYCLONE engines are fine if you get the 6 bolt engine, just swap over to the stock intake manifold since the cyclone manifold is a pile of shit and a pain in the ass to get to even work properly without many very hard to find parts that are generally not included with the swap.
i have no complaints about the size of the car interior or exterior wise, people told me i was going to be crawling in and out of it and feeling cramped, but i had no problems getting in or out and driving it was very comfortable. the seats were very nice, had lumbar support adjustment side bolster adjustment, tilt adjustment. really quite nice seats, especially compared to a civic. (i do not like the leather seats, i had a friend with leather seats and they suck ass.)
I wouldn't get a Laser, i don't think they came in awd even. fwd dsm's suck ass, if you're going to dive in to that money pit you might as well go head first and get the only ones worth buying AWD TSi.
they really are hit and miss, if you are going to buy one, see if you can take it for a day and definately get it on a hoist and have a look at the underside. check all the wheel bearings, the transfer cases, the diffs, the prop shaft, etc. etc. make sure that the turbo oil drain line is not stripped out of the oil pan, cause that's a bitch to fix since you have to take the downpipe off and the transmission half apart to get the oil pan off.
they realy are a pain in the ass to work on unless you have a lot of time and patience.
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1261861 - 04/16/07 01:41 AM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: cua0]
|
I Live In Canada
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 10001
|
Lasers came in awd. Find a good car and you wont have any real issues. A dsm isn't really a car you should just pick up drive for a bit and sell. They take a while to learn their little tricks but once you do their easy to work on, parts a plentiful, easy to make power on etc.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1263343 - 04/16/07 12:31 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: I Live In Canada]
|
5.Slow
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/18/00
Posts: 3979
Loc: Beaverton, Oregon
|
DSMs get a bad rep because of their owners. Turbobricks website has the same problem. People post about what a pile their turbo volvo is, and how it's unreliable, and they can't get power out of it reliably, when they purchased a 150k mile car, and didn't even change a fuel filter. Turbo brickers call it "stage zero", just replacing all the vaccuum hoses, lines, tune up, fluids, flushing systems, replacing sensors, basically, getting the car back to "like new" running condition before modding.
I've seen a lot of DSM guys buy the car with 100k or more miles, and just start modding, without bringing the car back to like new condition. I've also seen a lot of DSM owners that have done the basics on the car, made sure it was stout, and now have 400+ hp daily drivers.
kickass, fast, fun cars if you are willing to take care of it.
_________________________
Hi
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1263459 - 04/16/07 12:54 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: Euphoricuck]
|
5.Slow
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/18/00
Posts: 3979
Loc: Beaverton, Oregon
|
so, if it nickel and dimes you when you buy it or over time. makes no difference 
pretty much, but by that sense, ANY car that's over ten years old will be the same nickel and dime situation. I just plan an extra $700 or so on top of purchase price, to get it going in the right direction. I've learned the hard way lol boom
_________________________
Hi
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1263503 - 04/16/07 01:02 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: Euphoricuck]
|
w1kk3d
Jr Member
Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 527
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
|
I've had 3 "DSM's"
- '96 AWD A/T - 120k miles - (RIP)
∙ 16g/exhaust/intake/ic piping/fuel pump/etc.
∙ zero rust.
∙ zero problems until I curbed it in the rain.
- '96 AWD A/T - 149k miles -
∙ 16g/exhaust/intake/ic piping/fuel pump/etc (swapped from previous car)
∙ small rust spot on inside of trunklid, damn chicago cars.
∙ crank pulley seperated at 120k (common)
∙ CPS died at 140k.
∙ Transmission finally died after 145k of hard driving.
∙ Still runs like a raped ape to this day.
- '98 GS-T A/T Spyder - 121k miles -
∙ FP Big T28/exhaust/o2 dump/intake/ic piping/etc.
∙ zero rust.
∙ zero problems.
Maybe it's the luck of the A/T, but all 3 were daily drivers, no downtime at all except for the tranny swap in #2.
After all, it's not a coincidence that Danl & I religiously believe in maintenance, and ours are very reliable.
It's just that simple.
Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance.
I like that Stage0.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1264498 - 04/16/07 04:17 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: w1kk3d]
|
method1
Jr Member
Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 620
Loc: Bay Area, CA
|
My dad bought a bright red Eclipse GSX (on my recommendation) new in 1992. He babied that car and drove it perhaps 10k miles a year, serviced it regularly, and kept it garaged. That didn't keep the turbo, and then the entire engine, from failing within five years.
I'm not saying that this is typical for all early DSMs, but his experience wasn't all that great.
On a related note, perhaps nothing is quite so sad as a stock Eclipse GSX with an automatic transmission.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1264711 - 04/16/07 04:59 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: 5.Slow]
|
danl
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12783
Loc: Maryland USA
|
I've seen a lot of DSM guys buy the car with 100k or more miles, and just start modding, without bringing the car back to like new condition. I've also seen a lot of DSM owners that have done the basics on the car, made sure it was stout, and now have 400+ hp daily drivers.
kickass, fast, fun cars if you are willing to take care of it.
Yes, I'm a believer in keeping up on maintenance and OEM parts. I feel that two years ago my car was a good example of a stage 0 + bolt on car at low 12's at 126mph. Stock motor stock transmission daily driver. Last year it was more race focused and less street usage, no winter usage, still on a stock motor and tranny went 11.9 at 126. I opted for a shep transmission as part of preventive maintenance at this power level and settled out with mid 11's at 130mph. Fully street legal and only broke when a third gear burnout on the highway went wrong (sidestepped the clutch and lost an axle into the frame...oops).
Method1, honestly something sounds like it failed in your fathers car or saw a bad oil change. For instance who are you to say that a low quality oil filter didn't implode and cause what sounds like a major oiling issue (turbo failure and motor failure). I can't guesstimate on the failure but I can state fact. The early 4g63's are one of the strongest production motors to ever be produced. The turbo design has seen 200+K miles and no failures. Hell its used on high mileage delivery trucks with 16g's and 20g's that see tons of hours. Aside from the laughable mitsu "problems" if you broke a early 4g63 then you did something wrong. If nothing else I've taken a stock 160+K example to 130mph trap speeds which is who knows how many horsepower. Bust on anything you want but the motor is stout. It is after all the fastest production 4 cyl in the world at nearly 200mph.
_________________________
“ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway?
the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.”
-Rex B16, June 11 2024
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1264789 - 04/16/07 05:16 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: danl]
|
Euphoricuck
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1265070 - 04/16/07 06:20 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: danl]
|
CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
|
dan's not crazy; nor is he the only person to have success with the 4g-series of motors. they were far beyond their years in technology, and were built extremely well. the motors prior to 1995 were bullet-proof if properly maintained... they came with service schedules, which were pretty intense.
you're accepting a little more responsibility with an AWD, turbo 4-cylinder than you are with a civic, or even an under-powered 302.
if you can't handle a rigerous maintenance schedule... stick to simple cars...
the NA 4g63, 4g64, 4g61 last forever because they're under-powered... they are over-built, and have very few complex parts.
I had the 6-bolt from the Galant put together with all-mitsu parts, and removed the balance-shafts. drove it for 15k miles and the oil-filter backed off because I never lock-tite'd it. I re-filled it, and drove it another 20k miles before it started knocking.(drove = beating the PISS out of it) I popped the caps off, replaced the bearings and drive it another 40k before I sold it. the new buyer put on ~30k before he bottomed out, and snapped the oil filter clean off. which... finally killed the motor. almost took Effort.
_________________________
Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant  AIM = gclipse96
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1265286 - 04/16/07 07:12 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: Euphoricuck]
|
CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
|
they were, but they also had timing belts, balance shafts, and hydrolic tensioners.
Even if you only put 14 miles on it, the belt needs replacing every 2 years.
It's not like this frikken saab; 6 years and 180k miles. original chain.
but, again...
_________________________
Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1265598 - 04/16/07 08:29 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: CommonGutterTrash]
|
danl
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12783
Loc: Maryland USA
|
My friend hit a chunk of ice in his eclipse pushing the oil pan into the pickup. He drove it to work then on the way home it started knocking. He then drove back to work meaning to pull the pan, got busy drove home. Drove back to work the next day and got time to finally pull the pan and rod caps. All 4 rods made contact but kinda didn't really spin in that they didn't break the tabs of. He replaced the bearings buttoned it up and drove it home. Drove it for 60 miles then did an oil change. All looked ok. Since then he's been driving it for a few months even made the trip down the mountain to vis it me.
He also lost the dipstick to his talon. When the oil pressure light would flicker he knew to add 1 quart and that car was ABUSED. Here is a video of his (literally) $600 in mod money car. Its a 16g with a stick welded exhaust stock fuel system pump gas 160K daily driver. *right click save as*
http://www.its-over.net/humls_brothers_talon.mov
EDIT:
In case your wondering yes he's flat shifting a high mileage daily driver.
Edited by danl (04/16/07 08:32 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1270277 - 04/17/07 09:39 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: w1kk3d]
|
danl
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12783
Loc: Maryland USA
|
On a related note, perhaps nothing is quite so sad as a stock Eclipse GSX with an automatic transmission.
Stock yea, I know that well  But there's nothin like a 15-20psi AWD launch, I miss that :| ... Time to AWD swap on the Spyder 
Let their be faith in the auto!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0mBg_A-KTlo
_________________________
“ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway?
the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.”
-Rex B16, June 11 2024
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1284577 - 04/22/07 04:59 PM
Re: Discuss: Eagle Talon / Mitsu Eclipse / Plymouth Laser
[Re: danl]
|
SpcNA[ZX]
Sr Member
Registered: 12/08/00
Posts: 1218
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
|
My experience?
'95 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX:
3" Turbo-back
MBC set to 16lbs
ACT 2600pp and organic street disc
K&N filter
I drove the piss out of this car nonstop and it never gave me any problems, I picked it up with 110k and sold it with 146k, the only guff I ever got from it was a roasted stock clucth, and then a broken clutch fork after I added the ACT (my own fault, I should have replaced it when I did the clutch). That car (though slow) was a really fun car to drive around, I could beat the HELL out of it and it never had any problems. I simply did the typical maint. and frequent oil changes and no problems.
'94 Eagle Talon TSi AWD:
Bought the car with 131k on the clock and it was stock sans some ricer stickers and painted trim. The previous owner beat the shit out of it and the tranny was going out on her when I purchased it. Since then I gave it a host of bolt-ons and eventually pulled out the 1G 7-bolt to make way for a 6-bolt stroker. Only problem I ever had with that car was that I fed it a towel while it was running (caught in the cam gears), all I had to do to fix that was to perform a timing belt job.
'92 Eagle Talon TSi AWD:
Just bought it, gonna do a stock rebuild on it and daily drive it.
For me the DSM experience depends on a lot of things, the cars are downright old, and they were turbocharged, awd, tuner cars from a time when that stuff basically didn't exist! Naturally since they have depreciated the cars have been handed down from one person to the next and now kids all over own them, own them and beat the ever living crap out of them! You have to really know what to look for when purchasing one but there are plenty of gems out there, and you can pick up a motor (longblock) from the junkyard for $125, have it rebuilt for CHEAP and you're back in business.
_________________________
'92 Galant VR-4
'93 Nissan 300ZX
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: auxilary, Professor Paki
|
|
s.jpg)
